GMATTERS: Admissions Interview: Kellogg: Part II
This week we share the second half of mbaMission's exclusive interview with Beth Flye, Assistant Dean and Director of Admissions and Financial Aid at Northwestern University's Kellogg School of Management. Today we'll get some valuable insight into the application review process and how candidates are reviewed in differences rounds.
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Admissions Interview: Kellogg, Part 2
mbaMission: We find that applicants often want to reduce their applications to a science. Is there a “Kellogg” way to get into Kellogg?
BF: I know that your audience would love for me to say yes, and there are days when even I wish that there was a yes to that. But I would say no. But in my saying no, please know that it’s not a negative answer whatsoever. If anything, I think it’s positive. There are some areas with the application criteria that if you think about an application and visualize it like a pie chart, you’ve got one slice for essays, and you’ve got one slice for quality of work experience, once slice for interviews and so forth. The great thing both for applicants and for those of us in admissions is that no person is the same. That is something I am very conscious of with every single application I read. That’s a good thing.
I advise people to put together the absolute best application you can, and I think a big part of that, as clichéd as this is going to sound, is really just being who you are. Not trying to be who you think we want to read about or who we want to hear in an interview. Just be you. I think that’s where candidates sometimes fall into that trap of, “I’m trying so hard. I want my tone in the essays to be this.” They want to get in. I just think that first and foremost, getting back to the idea that it’s not a science, the most important advice, honestly, is to be yourself. Be yourself. To me, an application is a platform. Here’s another way I like to think about an application, it’s a different type of platform to educate us about who you are. Plain and simple. That responsibility does lie with the candidate. Educate us about who you are through this application.
mbaMission: That question was a setup! People constantly call us up at mbaMission and say, “What is the Harvard way to get into Harvard or the Kellogg way to get into Kellogg?” As if there’s one secret formula the Admissions Committee is withholding only for the school’s favorite consultants or candidates. People will say, “Kellogg is a marketing school, so I’d better tell my marketing story.” But if you’re not a marketing person, and your best story is about supply chain, then tell your supply chain story.
BF: Exactly. I think that’s an excellent point. I couldn’t agree with you more. It’s not a science. Do we like to see, as an example, really great academic performance? Sure we do. Who wouldn’t? Do we like to see people who have progressive work experience and have demonstrated promotion? Of course. But is that a guarantee of admission? No. And again, the good news is, we’re looking at all that criteria together holistically. We really are. Again, if you think of it like a pie chart, not everybody’s chart is going to be the same. Every single one will be different. And that, to me, is a good thing.
mbaMission: Here’s another typical question we hear: Will a spelling error, typo or grammatical mistake kill an application?
BF: My response to that would be, not necessarily. But I think there are a couple of things that really are pertinent for candidates to employ when they’re applying to Kellogg, or to any school, for that matter, and that are really critical in life, whether it’s work, outside of work, and those are good judgment and good self-awareness. We know applicants aren’t perfect. Sometimes Spell Check, when you meant to say “form” and it dispensed “from,” yes, that can happen. So if I see that one time, is it a deal breaker? No, not necessarily at all. Now if I see it scattered around, the first thing I’m going to be thinking is, “Wow, this person didn’t seem to invest a great amount of effort here.” That’s troublesome to me. See the difference?
mbaMission: Yes, absolutely. Similarly, then, do you read applications in search of reasons to reject a candidate or reasons to accept the applicant? I think people sometimes feel as though the application process is a punitive one as opposed to one in which the Admissions Committee is truly seeking to learn about the candidate.
BF: I think that’s a great question, and I’m just sitting here thinking to myself, “How do I do that?” I think with me, I guess my lens is, I’m looking for somebody great. I guess I have a positive attitude with every application that I pick up. We have an extremely competitive pool, but what that means is that we’ve got a great, great pool in terms of quality, in terms of composition and diversity. And that’s exactly what we want. Do we have a tough job in admissions on selectivity? Sure we do, but that’s exactly what we want. Whether you’re hiring somebody or admitting somebody to business school, you want to have the so-called pick of the litter. For me, I’m looking for the positive points, but if there is something there that is not as competitive, on average, it’s almost like in my mind, “Okay, note to self, what are some noteworthy points?” And those noteworthy points may be all really great as far as positives. Or it can be a mix. And that takes a little bit more thinking time as far as making an evaluation, making a decision. In some cases—and I’m happy to say, not many cases—there may be, just looking across the board, signs that the applicant is just not competitive. What I mean by that is, they don’t have the work, they don’t have the grades, they didn’t do well in the interview. But overall, we have a great pool.
mbaMission: So Round 2 is upon us. Are there any disadvantages to applying in Round 2 rather than in Round 1?
BF: For Kellogg, absolutely not. I’m glad that you brought this up. This relates to some very common questions that we get: “When should I apply? Should I do it for Round 1? Do I even have a prayer in Round 2?” And my response is the same. Number one, apply when you’re ready. It takes a lot of time, effort, a lot of thinking [to apply]. It’s a project. It really is. It’s not something that’s meant to be rushed. So for Kellogg, if someone for whatever reason does not feel comfortable applying in that first round, but they’re thinking that second round is really going to work, they should go for it. Absolutely.
In addition to applying when you’re ready, I would strongly encourage that if possible, apply in one of the first two rounds. Are we going to shun those who apply in the third round? No, not at all. The reasons that I say that are, just looking at history, most of our applications come in during the first two rounds. Therefore, we select a large proportion of the class from those first two rounds. Related to that, we’ve had a trend where our yield suddenly was significantly higher than maybe what we had forecast. That suddenly becomes a factor for us about how many more people we can admit. That’s why I’m saying, aim for one of the first two rounds if possible.
mbaMission: What would you say to someone who is two years out of college in terms of shaping their candidacy going forward? What advice do you have for someone like that?
BF: You mean, they’re looking at business school in their future but not applying right at two years out? Is that correct?
mbaMission: Exactly.
BF: I think in terms of just their work, they’re on a work path, even though their career may change, and it may change a few times. I think, make the most of your work experience. Not to sound like your parents, but absolutely do the best you can. A question related to this that I get a lot is, “What should I be doing? What type of work should I be doing?” I don’t see that as an issue. I think, follow your heart. And whatever you do, do it extraordinarily well. That is what I would say. Make the most out of it. Learn as much as you can where you are, and then apply those learnings in your work and career going forward.
The other thing is, if someone is looking ahead, be proactive. If you think you may be going down the business school path in terms of applying, what are some things that you can be proactive about? Go ahead and take the GMAT if you haven’t. I really do think there’s a lot to be said for test performance for those who have not been away from school too long versus if you take it 15 years later. Nothing wrong with 15 years later, but why not take it when you’re still relatively fresh coming out of undergrad? I would definitely do that. I would also go ahead and research schools. Get a feel for programs, from admissions to curricular offerings to career management. Go ahead and become knowledgeable about the business schools out there. What does an admissions process look like?
I would also say that if someone did not have the most competitive academic record, then show us that you can do the work. Take some classes. That’s not just going to help you as an applicant—it’s like spinach. It can only be good for you. I always tell people if you’re thinking ahead, think about where you can be proactive, not just as an applicant, but also envision yourself as a future student. What can you do to try to be as successful as you can? Those are just some of the things. And I think on the personal, extracurricular front, schools are looking for well-rounded people. Whatever your passions are, dive in headfirst. We don’t have an approved list of extracurricular activities; that’s not what we do. But I would say, make the most of your life, not just when you are in undergrad, not just academically and not just professionally. What other passions do you have? Go with that.
mbaMission: You’re like a myth destroyer here! This is the kind of information we give to candidates all the time, so it’s great to have it corroborated by you.
BF: Honestly, I will say from my working standpoint, thank heavens there’s not a short list. I would be bored to tears, and I think business school would be a boring experience. Just like on the work front, we’re not concerned about exactly what your title is and how marquee of a company name you have. What have you been doing? What did you learn? And it’s pretty exciting when you see somebody coming from Wall Street, and then you see somebody coming from the military in Israel, and the next thing you know, look at this, a rabbi is applying. It’s just incredible. My advice would be to just follow your heart, and do those things on the professional front, and do them extraordinarily well.
mbaMission: Is there anything else you want people to know about Kellogg or applying to the school? Is there anything we haven’t covered that you think is important for people to know?
BF: One of the things I think makes Kellogg incredibly unique is that we are about diversity. That has many meanings, not just that we have a variety of all kinds of students here, and we want that. We also have a diverse portfolio of majors and elective courses and that translates out. Really bright, interesting, unique students marry that with the diverse curriculum we’re offering, and what does that attract? That attracts a really diverse base of companies and industries. And we have historically fared very well in downward times with the economy, and I think a lot of that has to do with not just the quality of the students that we have here but again the diversity factor that really starts in admissions and goes all the way through the school and translates out on the recruiter side. That’s one thing I would highlight.
A second thing, which we touched on, would be the myth of “I can’t apply in Round 2.” Absolutely you can. Absolutely. I certainly hope we’re going to see a nice robust and high-quality pool in Round 2. The third thing I would say is on the financial resources front. This has been a priority, and it continues to be a priority that we want to do as much as we can to help admitted applicants on the financial aid side. We do have financial assistance that admitted applicants can apply for, both U.S. citizens and permanent residents. We have an array of merit-based scholarships, no separate application required, and then we also have our Northwestern Loan Program. We never lost our loan program, and this is university funds. So, as you know, a number of schools last year suddenly lost their programs because the bank that they were working with pulled the plug. Our loan program is still in place, and I definitely think it is a reasonable program in terms of rates and so forth. And this is especially key for our international applicants.
And then related to financial assistance, for the military folks who have served post 9/11, we are a participant in the Yellow Ribbon Program, and we’re very, very proud of that. And so all the information about how many folks we can award funding to, the matching, etc., we’ve got that all on our Web site. But I wanted to let you know Kellogg is participating in that.
mbaMission: Thank you again, Beth. It has been great talking with you, and I really appreciate your time.
This Week's Challenge Probelm
Set S consists of 5 values, not necessarily in ascending order: {4, 8, 12, 16, x}. For how many values of x does the mean of set S equal the median of set S?
(A) Zero
(B) One
(C) Two
(D) Three
(E) More than three
Last Week's Challenge Probelm Solution
The quantity p(12) equals the product of all the primes less than or equal to 12. Thus, the number we are looking for is this:
2×3×5×7×11 + 11
= 11×(2×3×5×7+1) [factor out the 11]
= 11×(210 + 1) [do the arithmetic]
= 11×211
= some large number.
We want to keep this number factored, and in fact we need to find its prime factorization. So, we ask: is 211 prime? Well, 211 cannot be divided evenly by 2, 3, 5, or 7, because 211 equals a multiple of all those numbers (210), plus 1. The "plus 1" means that 211 won't be divisible by any of the same factors as 210 (except for 1). Is 211 divisible by 11 or by 13? No, as we can check quickly by long division.
And we only need to check possible prime factors up to the square root of 211 (which is between 14, the square root of 196, and 15, the square root of 225). If there is a pair of factors besides 211 and 1, one of the factors in the pair must be lower than the square root of 211 (and the other factor in the pair would be larger). Since there are no prime factors of 211 less than 14, we know that 211 is prime, and the second smallest prime factor of p(12) + 11 = 11×211 is 211. The correct answer is (E).
