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BG
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Post subject: The loan company  Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:24 am |
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The loan company announced it would soon lend money to borrowers with proven records of their not paying back their loans on time, collectively known as the subprime lending market.
A.Of their not paying back their loans on time,
B.Of not paying back their loans on time, a group
C.Of not paying back their loans on time, with such a group
D.That they do not pay back their loans on time,
E.That they do not pay back their loans on time, such a group
Ans is B. I chose E
Maybe "they" is ambiguous, but in my view, "they" refers to borrowers only. If "such a group" replace the appositive-"a group" in choice B, is it still correct?
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RR
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:53 am |
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IMHO
Quote: Maybe "they" is ambiguous, but in my view, "they" refers to borrowers only. You are correct. 'they' is not ambiguous. The problem with E is that it is needlessly wordy and possibly, grammatically incorrect. Quote: If "such a group" replace the appositive-"a group" in choice B, is it still correct?
In that case B would be wrong though it might still be the best pick among all the choices.
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RonPurewal
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Post subject: Re: The loan company Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:57 am |
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| ManhattanGMAT Staff |
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Posts: 7146
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BG wrote: The loan company announced it would soon lend money to borrowers with proven records of their not paying back their loans on time, collectively known as the subprime lending market.
A.Of their not paying back their loans on time,
B.Of not paying back their loans on time, a group
C.Of not paying back their loans on time, with such a group
D.That they do not pay back their loans on time,
E.That they do not pay back their loans on time, such a group
Ans is B. I chose E
Maybe "they" is ambiguous, but in my view, "they" refers to borrowers only. If "such a group" replace the appositive-"a group" in choice B, is it still correct?
(d) and (e) are unidiomatic; you can't write "proven records that they..."
the pronoun is technically ambiguous, but, as the same ambiguity is present in all five of the answer choices (all of which contain "their", which has the same antecedent problems as "they"), you can safely ignore that ambiguity.
if you substitute "such a group" for "a group", then that's incorrect, because "such" wouldn't be referring to anything.
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shobuj40
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Post subject: Re: The loan company Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:46 pm |
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pls cooment on ans choice A.
what is the difference between:
collectively known as the subprime market
and
a group collectively known as the subprime market
thanks in advance
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JonathanSchneider
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Post subject: Re: The loan company Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:55 pm |
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| ManhattanGMAT Staff |
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Posts: 480
Location: Durham, NC
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Placing a noun after a comma (or in this case an article - "a" - and then a noun), followed by a modifier of that noun, is a great way to describe an idea from the preceding clause. This structure is known as an absolute phrase.
Example:
The scientists discovered whale-fish bones in the Arctic, findings that prove the existence of whale-fish.*
By placing a comma and then the word "findings," we are describing the discoveries. This same structure is used in the sentence above to describe the group. This is very handy when you want to describe something from earlier in the sentence but cannot simply start a modifier due to placement issues.
*Note: I just made this up; I have no idea what whale-fish are :)
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aps_asks
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Post subject: Re: The loan company Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:43 am |
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So Folks , if i understand correctly
Absolute Phrase ( a group collectively known as... ) and the Idiom -- with proven records of is the deciding factor here ?
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RonPurewal
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Post subject: Re: The loan company Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:06 pm |
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| ManhattanGMAT Staff |
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Posts: 7146
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aps_asks wrote: So Folks , if i understand correctly
Absolute Phrase ( a group collectively known as... ) and the Idiom -- with proven records of is the deciding factor here ? basically yes
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aps_asks
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Post subject: Re: The loan company Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:17 pm |
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jnelson0612
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Post subject: Re: The loan company Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:50 pm |
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Posts: 1857
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Thanks everyone! :-)
_________________
Jamie Nelson
ManhattanGMAT Instructor
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thanghnvn
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Post subject: Re: The loan company Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:42 am |
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(d) and (e) are unidiomatic; you can't write "proven records that they..."
the pronoun is technically ambiguous, but, as the same ambiguity is present in all five of the answer choices (all of which contain "their", which has the same antecedent problems as "they"), you can safely ignore that ambiguity.
if you substitute "such a group" for "a group", then that's incorrect, because "such" wouldn't be referring to anything.
Ron, Pls, explain how "such" is used, regarding the above comment. Thank you.
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llzzyy234
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Post subject: Re: The loan company Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:31 am |
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I know that OA is B, but I feel confused about the structure "records of not paying back their loans on time".
Is the structure "of + VERBING" is always right?
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RonPurewal
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Post subject: Re: The loan company Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:27 pm |
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llzzyy234 wrote: Is the structure "of + VERBING" is always right? for any question of the form "is the structure _____ always right?", the answer is almost always going to be no.
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thanghnvn
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Post subject: Re: The loan company Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:59 am |
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Ron said:
//////
if you substitute "such a group" for "a group", then that's incorrect, because "such" wouldn't be referring to anything.
///////
I understand that we can use "SUCH A NOUN" only when NOUN exists in an early place.
"such a group" in E is wrong because there is no word " group" in the early part of the sentence
the following must be correct:
I like the group of students and such a group can be a good community
Ron, experts, pls, confirm my above thinking. Thank you.
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RonPurewal
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Post subject: Re: The loan company Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 4:24 am |
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thanghnvn wrote: Ron said:
//////
if you substitute "such a group" for "a group", then that's incorrect, because "such" wouldn't be referring to anything.
///////
I understand that we can use "SUCH A NOUN" only when NOUN exists in an early place.
"such a group" in E is wrong because there is no word " group" in the early part of the sentence
the following must be correct:
I like the group of students and such a group can be a good community
Ron, experts, pls, confirm my above thinking. Thank you. as long as you mention some specific "X" earlier in the sentence, then "such an X" is fine, yes. another example: i have no problem with using a standard geometry textbook; indeed, such a book is helpful in providing ready-made sets of practice problems.--> "such a book" is legitimate because the sentence has mentioned a particular book (namely, a standard geometry textbook).
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zhongshanlh
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Post subject: Re: The loan company Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:57 am |
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JonathanSchneider wrote: Placing a noun after a comma (or in this case an article - "a" - and then a noun), followed by a modifier of that noun, is a great way to describe an idea from the preceding clause. This structure is known as an absolute phrase.
Example:
The scientists discovered whale-fish bones in the Arctic, findings that prove the existence of whale-fish.*
By placing a comma and then the word "findings," we are describing the discoveries. This same structure is used in the sentence above to describe the group. This is very handy when you want to describe something from earlier in the sentence but cannot simply start a modifier due to placement issues.
*Note: I just made this up; I have no idea what whale-fish are :) i got confused about the explanation here. because i think that the so called "appositive modifier"and the "absolute phrase" here seem,to some extend, like each other. Ron,could u please help me to clarify the differences between these two modifiers(such as when we should use appositive or absolute phrase and what functions do they each play in the sentences)? pls help me! THX very much!
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