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 Post subject: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:47 am 
The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the St. Lawrence by way of Lake Michigan, but having been redirected by constructing canals so that the water now empties into the Mississippi by way of the Illinois River.
A. Rivers originally flowed into the St. Lawrence by way of Lake Michigan, but having been redirected by constructing
B. Rivers had originally flowed into the St. Lawrence by way of Lake Michigan, but they have been redirected by constructing
C. Rivers, which originally flowed into the St. Lawrence by way of Lake Michigan but have been redirected by the construction of
D. Rivers, originally flowing into the St. Lawrence by way of Lake Michigan, but having been redirected by the construction of
E. Rivers, originally flowing into the St. Lawrence by way of Lake Michigan, have been redirected through the construction of


whats wrong with B..

have been redirected through the construction ??


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:41 am 
Is it possible to use

HAD and HAVE in the same sentence.... as is done in B... or should we use past tense and present perfect for such situations.

or is there a definite rule -- that have and had can not be in the same sentence... only had and did are allowed ???




apart from the "to have" construction


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:50 pm 
IS OA:E???


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 Post subject: Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into th
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:27 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 8087
Sputnik wrote:
B. Rivers had originally flowed into the St. Lawrence by way of Lake Michigan, but they have been redirected by constructing
...
whats wrong with B..



there are two things wrong with (b).

one:
the use of the past perfect (had flowed) is inappropriate, because there is no second past-time marker or event to which this first event is relevant.
compare: the rivers had originally flowed into the st. lawrence, but then their course was diverted by...
the correct tense to use here would be the simple past, because this is the only past time frame referenced in the whole sentence.

two:
'by constructing' seems to refer back to the rivers as its ostensible subject, implying (absurdly) that the rivers themselves constructed the canals.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the
 Post Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:46 pm 
Offline


Posts: 18
What is the right answer ?

IS the right answer : E


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 Post subject: Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the
 Post Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 1:10 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 480
Location: Durham, NC
Yes


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 Post subject: Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the
 Post Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 11:26 am 
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Posts: 11
can somebody explain what's wrong with C


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 Post subject: Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the
 Post Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 5:25 am 
Offline
ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 8087
sanjaylakhani wrote:
can somebody explain what's wrong with C


(c) isn't even a sentence. it's a really, really, really long sentence fragment.

the part in, and following, "which" is all one huge modifier:
which originally flowed ... but have been redirected...

there's no main verb.

if you don't see what i'm talking about, email back and i'll explain in further detail.

_________________
Being well-dressed gives a feeling of inward tranquillity [that] religion is powerless to bestow.
C.F. Forbes


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 Post subject: Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:52 pm 
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Students


Posts: 14
D. Rivers, originally flowing into the St. Lawrence by way of Lake Michigan, but having been redirected by the construction of

What is wrong w/ D? How do I interpret the 'having been' construction?


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 Post subject: Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:18 pm 
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Students


Posts: 16
Option D is again long sentence fragment.
Rivers, modifier, but modifier...

Ron,
I just wanted a clarification regarding your explanation for option b.
<two:
'by constructing' seems to refer back to the rivers as its ostensible subject, implying (absurdly) that the rivers themselves constructed the canals.>

the construction "they have been redirected by constructing ..". This is passive voice construction, so how could 'by constructing" refer back to rivers. I mean that rivers may be redirected by doing something, so how rivers can redirect themselves with this sentence construction..??


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 Post subject: Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:45 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 8087
kamalsinghy wrote:
Option D is again long sentence fragment.
Rivers, modifier, but modifier...

Ron,
I just wanted a clarification regarding your explanation for option b.
<two:
'by constructing' seems to refer back to the rivers as its ostensible subject, implying (absurdly) that the rivers themselves constructed the canals.>

the construction "they have been redirected by constructing ..". This is passive voice construction, so how could 'by constructing" refer back to rivers. I mean that rivers may be redirected by doing something, so how rivers can redirect themselves with this sentence construction..??


idiomatically, "BY ___ING" retains the subject of the preceding clause. this is something you just have to know.
it is also something of which most native speakers are aware, even though they can't actually articulate it. (this is the case for a great many, if not most, usage and idiom rules, actually.)
examples:
i am bored by performing jazz --> this means i get bored when i PLAY the music MYSELF.
i am bored by the performance of jazz --> i don't like to sit and listen to someone else play jazz.

same deal here.

_________________
Being well-dressed gives a feeling of inward tranquillity [that] religion is powerless to bestow.
C.F. Forbes


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 Post subject: Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into th
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:18 am 
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Forum Guests


Posts: 1
there are two things wrong with (b).

one:
the use of the past perfect (had flowed) is inappropriate, because there is no second past-time marker or event to which this first event is relevant.
compare: the rivers had originally flowed into the st. lawrence, but then their course was diverted by...
the correct tense to use here would be the simple past, because this is the only past time frame referenced in the whole sentence.

but you see this question and pay attention to the tense

Ozone, a special form of oxygen that screens out harmful ultraviolet rays, reaches high concentrations twelve miles above Earth, where it has long appeared that it was immune from human influence; we have now realized, though, that emissions of industrial chlorofluorocarbons deplete the ozone layer.
(A) has long appeared that it was immune from
(B) has long appeared to have been immune from
(C) has long appeared as being immune to
D) had long appeared immune to
(E) had long appeared that it was immune to


ans:D

why use "had appeared " here??


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 Post subject: Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into th
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:20 pm 
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Prospective Students


Posts: 132
RonPurewal wrote:
Sputnik wrote:
B. Rivers had originally flowed into the St. Lawrence by way of Lake Michigan, but they have been redirected by constructing
...
whats wrong with B..



there are two things wrong with (b).

one:
the use of the past perfect (had flowed) is inappropriate, because there is no second past-time marker or event to which this first event is relevant.
compare: the rivers had originally flowed into the st. lawrence, but then their course was diverted by...
the correct tense to use here would be the simple past, because this is the only past time frame referenced in the whole sentence.

two:
'by constructing' seems to refer back to the rivers as its ostensible subject, implying (absurdly) that the rivers themselves constructed the canals.


The success of the program to eradicate smallpox has stimulated experts to pursue something they had not previously considered possible-better control, if not eradication, of such infections as measles and yaws.(Source: GMATPrep)

Ron, you see, past perfect is just there without simple past. could you explain in advance.

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stephen


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 Post subject: Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into th
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:43 pm 
Offline
ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 8087
tankobe wrote:
RonPurewal wrote:
Sputnik wrote:
B. Rivers had originally flowed into the St. Lawrence by way of Lake Michigan, but they have been redirected by constructing
...
whats wrong with B..



there are two things wrong with (b).

one:
the use of the past perfect (had flowed) is inappropriate, because there is no second past-time marker or event to which this first event is relevant.
compare: the rivers had originally flowed into the st. lawrence, but then their course was diverted by...
the correct tense to use here would be the simple past, because this is the only past time frame referenced in the whole sentence.

two:
'by constructing' seems to refer back to the rivers as its ostensible subject, implying (absurdly) that the rivers themselves constructed the canals.


The success of the program to eradicate smallpox has stimulated experts to pursue something they had not previously considered possible-better control, if not eradication, of such infections as measles and yaws.(Source: GMATPrep)

Ron, you see, past perfect is just there without simple past. could you explain in advance.


see here:
post35940.html#p35940

once you've looked at that:
stimulation is a point event. for the same reasons mentioned in that post, "has stimulated" actually signifies a past event (perhaps from the very recent past, but from the past nonetheless).

_________________
Being well-dressed gives a feeling of inward tranquillity [that] religion is powerless to bestow.
C.F. Forbes


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 Post subject: Re: The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into th
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:17 am 
Offline
Course Students


Posts: 24
Quote:
once you've looked at that:
stimulation is a point event. for the same reasons mentioned in that post, "has stimulated" actually signifies a past event (perhaps from the very recent past, but from the past nonetheless).



Ron, to your point, HAVE BEEN REDIRECTED is not a single point event because 'BEEN' signifies progress, right? Could you please confirm my reasoning?


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