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 Post subject: SC- The Quechuans believed
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:40 pm 
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Posts: 19
Dear Stacey / Ron,
could you plaese explain me the error on "c" ? and generally could you explain how should I answer this question.
I can understand that "it" in a/b is ambiguous. but I can not understand c/d/e?


The Quechuans believed that all things participated in both the material level and the mystical level of reality, and many individual Quechuans claimed to have contact with it directly with an ichana (dream) experience.
(A) contact with it directly with
(B) direct contact with it by way of
(C) contact with the latter directly through
(D) direct contact with the latter by means of
(E) contact directly with the mystical level due to

the source is GMATPrep.
the answer is D.

Thanks in advance


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 Post subject: Re: SC- The Quechuans believed
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:13 pm 
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Posts: 19
please help me to understand this questions. pleaseee


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 Post subject: Re: SC- The Quechuans believed
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:06 pm 
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Posts: 40
Hi,

"Due to" does modify nouns, but it's typically used after the verb "to be."
For example, "His team's win today was due to better conditioning."

Hence you can eliminate E.

C is wrong because "directly" is an adverb which is incorrectly modifying the noun "contact".


Thanks and Regards,
Partha.


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 Post subject: Re: SC- The Quechuans believed
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:30 am 
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parthatayi wrote:
Hi,

"Due to" does modify nouns, but it's typically used after the verb "to be."
For example, "His team's win today was due to better conditioning."

Hence you can eliminate E.

C is wrong because "directly" is an adverb which is incorrectly modifying the noun "contact".


Thanks and Regards,
Partha.

thank you Partha.


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 Post subject: Re: SC- The Quechuans believed
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:56 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 12513
shimbal80 wrote:
please help me to understand this questions. pleaseee

don't do this -- i.e., don't post a message that says "please answer my question".
this is called "bumping" the thread; it brings the thread up to the most recent position in the folder.

the problem, of course, is that we answer the posts strictly in order from oldest to newest. therefore, if you post a message, with no content, that says "please answer this post", then you are moving the thread to the LAST place in the queue.

please be patient -- we will get to all of the threads. if you make posts like this one, you're just making it take longer.
thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: SC- The Quechuans believed
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:02 am 
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Posts: 12513
Quote:
(C) contact with the latter directly through


this is incorrect because it's ambiguous.

possible interpretation #1:
contact with the latter directly through...
i.e., the contact is what is direct; the dream experience is just a conduit. in this interpretation, "through" is not used with directly; therefore, it's possible, in this interpretation, that the dream experience is only one of a number of consecutive channels through which contact is achieved.

possible interpretation #2:
contact with the latter directly through...
i.e., we are not sure whether the actual contact is direct, but the dream experience is the only channel of transmission.

if you're still having trouble seeing the ambiguity here, consider the following:
Use this door only after 5pm.

interpretation #1:
Use this door only after 5pm (i.e., don't use any other doors after 5pm)

interpretation #2:
Use this door only after 5pm (i.e., don't use this door until 5pm)


Quote:
(E) contact directly with the mystical level due to


this answer choice misuses "due to".
for the correct use of "due to", please see this post:
post29817.html#p29817
after you read the content of that post, you should understand why the use of "due to" in the current post is incorrect.

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 Post subject: Re: SC- The Quechuans believed
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:18 pm 
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Posts: 52
Hi, Ron,

I have a question about usage of "means" in choice D. Here I'm not trying to doubt correct answer, but I just found a paradox of the usage of the word "means".

In MGMAT SC 4th Page 160, the book says that the word "means" should only follow with "to", and it is incorrect to use "of"/"for" to follow with "means". Could u clarify that?


RonPurewal wrote:
this answer choice misuses "due to".
for the correct use of "due to", please see this post:
post29817.html#p29817
after you read the content of that post, you should understand why the use of "due to" in the current post is incorrect.



Moreover, I have a question about E

After seeing the post you cited above, I still have no idea why the "due to" in E is wrong. I change the "due to" to "caused by" in E:

"many individual Quechuans claimed to have contact directly with X caused by Y". (X stands for "the mystical level", and Y stands for "an ichana experience").

I don't know what's wrong with the "X caused by Y" structure here, where the X is a noun and the "caused by Y" structure modifies X. Could u shed more light on it?


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 Post subject: Re: SC- The Quechuans believed
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:43 am 
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Posts: 12513
rx_11 wrote:
Hi, Ron,

I have a question about usage of "means" in choice D. Here I'm not trying to doubt correct answer, but I just found a paradox of the usage of the word "means".

In MGMAT SC 4th Page 160, the book says that the word "means" should only follow with "to", and it is incorrect to use "of"/"for" to follow with "means". Could u clarify that?


that's actually a totally different, and unrelated, construction.
if 2 different idioms have different meanings, then they are completely unrelated to each other -- you'll have to remember them separately, along with their meanings.

the example given in the book is "X is a means to Y", which means that X is some action that can be used in an attempt to attain condition Y.
the example given here is "Y can be done by means of X", which means that X is a way of accomplishing whatever Y is.
these are unrelated.

the same is true for lots of other words, too.
for instance, if i have the same opinion as person X does, then i agree WITH person X (and, in this situation, "agree on" and "agree to" are wrong).
on the other hand, if someone with power over me, such as an employer, offers thing Y and i accept it, then i agree TO thing Y (and, in this situation, "agree with" and "agree on" are wrong).
and, if a partner and i are going over the terms of a contract and we reach a mutually acceptable compromise, then we agree ON that compromise (and, in this case, "agree with" and "agree to" are wrong).

don't just memorize the words of idioms! make sure you know what they're supposed to mean!

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 Post subject: Re: SC- The Quechuans believed
 Post Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 3:33 pm 
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Students


Posts: 30
Actually there is a mistake in the first post of this thread. Answer C is :

(C) contact with the LAST directly through

I think we can eliminate answer C because "the last" is not correct here. It should be "the latter".


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 Post subject: Re: SC- The Quechuans believed
 Post Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:47 am 
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Posts: 12513
david.khoy wrote:
Actually there is a mistake in the first post of this thread. Answer C is :

(C) contact with the LAST directly through

I think we can eliminate answer C because "the last" is not correct here. It should be "the latter".


if that's the correct transcription, then, yes, "the last" is incorrect.
* "former/latter" should be used only when there are exactly two things.
* "last" should be used only when there are three or more things.
i think that "first" can actually be used in either of these two situations (in contrast to "last", which shouldn't be used unless there are 3 or more things), but i would want to see official GMAT evidence before making a conclusive judgment on that issue.

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 Post subject: Re: SC- The Quechuans believed
 Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:52 am 
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Posts: 49
whether "to have contact" is right? Should not it be "to have contacted"

Please clarify


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 Post subject: Re: SC- The Quechuans believed
 Post Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:38 pm 
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Posts: 2597
ranjeet1975 wrote:
whether "to have contact" is right? Should not it be "to have contacted"

Please clarify


Notice that "to have contacted" does not appear in any of the answer choices, so "to have (direct) contact" must be correct.

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Jamie Nelson
ManhattanGMAT Instructor


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 Post subject: Re: SC- The Quechuans believed
 Post Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:50 pm 
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Posts: 61
RonPurewal wrote:
Quote:
(C) contact with the latter directly through


this is incorrect because it's ambiguous.

possible interpretation #1:
contact with the latter directly through...
i.e., the contact is what is direct; the dream experience is just a conduit. in this interpretation, "through" is not used with directly; therefore, it's possible, in this interpretation, that the dream experience is only one of a number of consecutive channels through which contact is achieved.

possible interpretation #2:
contact with the latter directly through...
i.e., we are not sure whether the actual contact is direct, but the dream experience is the only channel of transmission.


Ron,expert,plz help.
in ur explanation above, i think that the word "contact" in the context "claimed to have contact with the last directly through" is a noun,because if it is a verb, i think we should use the past particle form of the word,that is "contacted"
so i think "directly" can not modify "contact"
pls confirm my thought, thank you so much!


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 Post subject: Re: SC- The Quechuans believed
 Post Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 5:16 am 
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Posts: 4877
Location: Southwest Airlines, seat 21C
in all cases where "directly" is used, it modifies "have"..

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Manhattan GMAT Instructor


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 Post subject: Re: SC- The Quechuans believed
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:11 am 
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Course Students


Posts: 68
rx_11 wrote:
Hi, Ron,

I have a question about usage of "means" in choice D. Here I'm not trying to doubt correct answer, but I just found a paradox of the usage of the word "means".

In MGMAT SC 4th Page 160, the book says that the word "means" should only follow with "to", and it is incorrect to use "of"/"for" to follow with "means". Could u clarify that?


RonPurewal wrote:
this answer choice misuses "due to".
for the correct use of "due to", please see this post:
post29817.html#p29817
after you read the content of that post, you should understand why the use of "due to" in the current post is incorrect.



Moreover, I have a question about E

After seeing the post you cited above, I still have no idea why the "due to" in E is wrong. I change the "due to" to "caused by" in E:

"many individual Quechuans claimed to have contact directly with X caused by Y". (X stands for "the mystical level", and Y stands for "an ichana experience").

I don't know what's wrong with the "X caused by Y" structure here, where the X is a noun and the "caused by Y" structure modifies X. Could u shed more light on it?



I thought the same too ( due to was modifying "contact with mystical level" which is a noun phrase ) . But after re-reading , posts in the above link on "due to" topic , I guess it is modifying "individual Quechuans claimed" , which is a verb phrase ( i think it , roughly , translates to "individual quechuans claimed due to dream" , instead of "contact due to dream"). I am not sure though . Would appreciate if any of the instructors can help me on this.

Thanks,
Jyothi


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