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sankar
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Post subject: SANAM pronouns  Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:40 am |
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I came across this sentence that said,
until now, none of my friends have been able to crack the problem.
and the answer had the have replaced with "has" ( singular)
Going by the SANAM pronoun section in Manhattan SC guide is not the above sentence a plural and consequently "have" the right usage ?
Thanks
Sankar
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dbernst
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:18 am |
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| ManhattanGMAT Staff |
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Posts: 304
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Sankar, Good question. In this sentence, "none" actually means "not one." Since the sentence is differentiating among the actions of individual friends, the correct verb form is singular: not one of my friends has been able to crack the problem.
-dan
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sankar
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:28 pm |
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Thankyou Dan !
So when does "none" mean no one ?
here does none refer to no one again ?
"none of them have ever been to the Europe "
also, could you give an example of a sentence where "have' is used along with "None "
Thanks again !
Sankar
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dbernst
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:41 pm |
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| ManhattanGMAT Staff |
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Posts: 304
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Sankar,
Actually a widespread grammatical debate exists between none as the singular "not one" and none as the plural "not any." Until I personally read about or come across a question on an offical GMAT using none as plural, I will consider none singular. However, if you are a grammarian (or just have some time to kill), feel free to check out the following link - just one of many on the Net.
http://www.grammarmudge.cityslide.com/a ... 3/9903.htm
-dan
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Guest
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:36 pm |
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SC question No. 17 in OG-11 uses "None" as singular.
Nauman
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rfernandez
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:08 pm |
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| ManhattanGMAT Staff |
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Posts: 386
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True, but interestingly, determining its number is not essential to finding the correct answer.
Rey
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StaceyKoprince
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Post subject: Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:58 pm |
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| ManhattanGMAT Staff |
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Posts: 6077
Location: San Francisco
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And that actually supports Dan's point - he said that he will consider "none" singular on the test UNLESS he sees an official question that uses "none" as plural. :)
_________________
Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director of Online Community
ManhattanGMAT
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H
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:13 am |
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Hi Dan,
I have read the site you posted.
However, I don't get what "not any" really means.
For instance, one of the examples on that site is:
None of my friends is going with me.
I thought that it was correct because the sentence wants to express that 0 of my friends is going with me.
Not one of my friend is going with me.
Not any of my friend are going with me.
What is the difference?
Thanks in advance.
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JonathanSchneider
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:30 pm |
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| ManhattanGMAT Staff |
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Posts: 380
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Describing "none" as "not any" is merely a way of saying that the word "none" can imply plurality.
Think of the sentence: None of my friends have come home. Would this sentence be more correct as: "None of my friends has come home?" I wouldn't choose it. Personally, I think the issue with #17 in OG11 is that the verb is not next to the plural noun in the of-phrase. As a result, it can more easily connect back to "none," and the of-phrase can bee seen as a middleman. I'd love to hear some other thoughts on this.
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H
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:08 am |
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schneiderfineart@gmail.co wrote: Describing "none" as "not any" is merely a way of saying that the word "none" can imply plurality.
Think of the sentence: None of my friends have come home. Would this sentence be more correct as: "None of my friends has come home?" I wouldn't choose it. Personally, I think the issue with #17 in OG11 is that the verb is not next to the plural noun in the of-phrase. As a result, it can more easily connect back to "none," and the of-phrase can bee seen as a middleman. I'd love to hear some other thoughts on this.
Hi Jonathan, so you think that the subject-verb agreement of "none of X" should be based on X?
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JonathanSchneider
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:50 pm |
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| ManhattanGMAT Staff |
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Posts: 380
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Yes, H, that is the idea behind the SANAM pronouns.
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vscid
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:29 pm |
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schneiderfineart@gmail.co wrote: Yes, H, that is the idea behind the SANAM pronouns.
so why does the first post (by sankar) needs to have 'has' ??
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JonathanSchneider
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:24 am |
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| ManhattanGMAT Staff |
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Posts: 380
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It's a good question. First of all, I haven't seen a source for the original sentence posted, so I wouldn't pull my hair out over it. My point in my last post was just that there could be a sentence when the meaning of "none" would be "not any" (plural), taking up the form of the "of" phrase. But I'll default to Dan on this issue until I see an actual GMAT problem using "none" otherwise.
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vscid
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Post subject: no one v/s nobody Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:55 am |
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Continuing the same discussion, is there a preference here ? :
No one was shocked by the company's bankruptcy.
Nobody was shocked by the company's bankruptcy.
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JonathanSchneider
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:53 am |
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| ManhattanGMAT Staff |
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Posts: 380
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It's an interesting question. I would expect the GMAT to use "no one" rather than "nobody," but this is not a rule. "No one" just sounds a bit more formal. In either case, you would use each term as a singular.
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