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amit2k9
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Post subject: Re: Rather than accept the conventional wisdom that the earth  Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:17 am |
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Is it, just the if and whether logic or there is tenses involved too.
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ajay7640
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Post subject: Re: Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:42 pm |
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This question popped up in one of your tests. So it is still NOt flagged for correction by manhattan Staff looks like.
Now how is Rather than accept (present tense) parallel to columbus sailed (past tense) in the answer choice D ?
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tim
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Post subject: Re: Rather than accept the conventional wisdom that the earth Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:34 am |
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| ManhattanGMAT Staff |
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You'll notice that this question forces use of the word "instead" because it's not underlined. Although the GMAT tends to deprecate use of "instead", if it's forced on you the correct approach is just to accept use of the term and find other things to focus on in determining your answer.. mikrodj wrote: I also noticed that in the problem 18 of the SC question bank, the correct option uses instead of with a verb and the explanation says Quote: The original sentence contains the idiom “Instead of A, [subject] B”, where A contains a verb ending in “-ing”. The correct form of this idiom can be seen in the following simple sentence:
Instead of doing his homework, Arthur watched TV
From my understanding here you're using instead of to compare verbs and also using -ing form parallel to a -ed form.
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Tim Sanders
Manhattan GMAT Instructor
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tim
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Post subject: Re: Rather than accept the conventional wisdom that the earth Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:46 am |
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| ManhattanGMAT Staff |
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I don't like to play the idiom card, but I'm going to go ahead and suggest you treat "rather than X" as just one of those things where the X needs to be in the present tense if it's a verb. I suspect the underlying rationale may have something to do with the unrealized hypothetical nature of the alternative, but I'm not able to find any sources to back that up.. gkumar wrote: JonathanSchneider wrote: You want "accept" here. This is because you are comparing this verb to the verb that follows Columbus. "Accepting" is a gerund (noun) in this context, and thus not parallel to the verb that follows Columbus. I am confused on this point. X Rather than Y is the idiom X and Y should be parallel and parallelism includes tenses. He SAILED west rather than ACCEPTED/ACCEPT the conventional wisdom Transposing the sentence to follow the question's structure: Rather than ACCEPTED/ACCEPT the conventional wisdom, He SAILED west. Shouldn't the Y be ACCEPTED since SAILED and ACCEPTED both have the same past tense? ACCEPT sounds wrong to my ear as well. MGMAT Staff, please clarify! Thanks.
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tim
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Post subject: Re: Rather than accept the conventional wisdom that the earth Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:49 am |
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| ManhattanGMAT Staff |
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It's an active versus passive voice issue. E says that rather than do something active, Columbus had something done to him. Those both need to be active voice.. amitgvlsijune06 wrote: Can anyone explain what is wrong with option E.I am not getting the tense logic here.
Thank you in advance.
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mohanty.pupun
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Post subject: Re: Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:43 am |
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christiancryan wrote: Hi Kris,
Thanks for your message. Long story short: we went a little far on this question, and so we're flagging it for revision so that C is more clearly wrong.
There IS a crucial difference between "rather than" and "instead of" that you should know. "Rather than" is a conjunction and so can be followed by basically anything, whereas "instead of" is a (complex) preposition -- and a preposition should be followed only by a noun.
Now, the noun can be an "-ing" verb, known as a gerund. So, the sentences you quote are not grammatically wrong in this regard. However, the GMAT seems to prefer "rather than" in comparisons of verbs, because the parallelism is clearest:
(1) "I ski rather than snowboard." -- Correct.
(2) "I ski instead of snowboarding." -- Correct, but a 'little' less parallel, so (1) is slightly preferable. The GMAT probably won't test this point in isolation, though, so we're going to revise the question.
You can also use "rather than" to compare phrases or clauses. In that context, "instead of" is absolutely wrong, even though it's heard in spoken English:
(3) "I went in the cellar rather than in the attic." -- Correct.
(4) "I went in the cellar instead of in the attic." -- INCORRECT although this 'sounds' normal to me, to be honest! (That's why you have to retrain your ear -- it's not always grammatically right!)
(5) "I went in the cellar instead of the attic." -- Also correct. No difference in preference between (3) and (5).
As for the meaning of the two expressions -- to my ear, they have slightly different connotations or nuances ("instead of" sounds more like an actual replacement to me than "rather than," which is somehow softer), but the GMAT doesn't seem to test that connotational difference.
So -- when in doubt, go with "rather than"!
Hope this is helpful! hi, pl. help me on this. I think the preposition (complex) can be followed only by noun, pronoun and noun phrase.Isn't that correct? (in regards to your comment highlighted in green) Again, pl. help me in understanding why the e,g highlighted in blue is wrong. I think instead of is reffering to a noun phrase "in the attic" and should be correct. Did I miss something. Pl. explain. regards, Ansumania
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mschwrtz
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Post subject: Re: Rather than accept the conventional wisdom that the earth Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 5:42 pm |
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Hey mohanty.pupun, either I misunderstood your question, or you misunderstood Chris's point, so I'm going to break this down into pretty small parts.
"Instead of" can be followed only by a noun or noun phrase.
"In the attic" is a prepositional phrase, not a noun phrase.
Therefore, "instead of in the attic" is wrong.
Did you understand Chris to mean that "instead of" should be followed by a preposition and then by a noun? That's not the correct understanding.
Do you mean to argue that "in..." is a noun phrase? It's not.
Let me know if I've missed some subtle--or unsubtle--point.
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adiagr
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Post subject: Re: Rather than accept the conventional wisdom that the earth wa Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 8:31 pm |
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MBA Action wrote: I have something toward this question and all the answer choices. Who was not accepting the convential wisdom that earth was flat, was it Columbus or the king and queen of spain? If they are the latter (which I feel more meaningful from the context of the sentence) then all choices are wrong.
When I faced this question, I started ruling out sentences yet to discover that the all initial phrases are followed by Columbus.
Am I missing something?
Thanks for replies. To continue with the argument of MBA action, options C and D indicate that it was Columbus who was not accepting the conventional wisdom that earth was flat; His being sent by King and Queen plays an incidental role. A, B and E (I agree there is a problem in "if" usage") on the other hand bring out the nuance that king and queen of Spain were not accepting the conventional wisdom that earth was flat and they sent Columbus. My query is whether syntax correction takes a priority over "meaning" in eliminating choices.
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tim
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Post subject: Re: Rather than accept the conventional wisdom that the earth Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:48 am |
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| ManhattanGMAT Staff |
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Unless you are bringing in outside knowledge here, there is no "meaning" to attach here beyond what the syntax provides. In EVERY answer choice, Christopher Columbus follows the comma, so we are forced to accept CC as the person who did not accept the conventional wisdom. Any other interpretation creates a misplaced modifier. In SC questions, we always attempt to apply an interpretation that makes the grammar work if possible, so no matter what other considerations are present here we MUST accept CC as the person who did not accept the conventional wisdom..
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adiagr
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Post subject: Re: Rather than accept the conventional wisdom that the earth Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:45 am |
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gmat_professor
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Post subject: Re: Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:52 am |
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christiancryan wrote: Hi Kris,
Thanks for your message. Long story short: we went a little far on this question, and so we're flagging it for revision so that C is more clearly wrong.
Christian's message was posted in 2007. Same question appeared in my MGMAT test given on 26.07.2010. GP.
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tgt.ivyleague
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Post subject: Re: Rather than accept the conventional wisdom that the earth Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:55 pm |
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gmat_professor wrote: christiancryan wrote: Hi Kris,
Thanks for your message. Long story short: we went a little far on this question, and so we're flagging it for revision so that C is more clearly wrong.
Christian's message was posted in 2007. Same question appeared in my MGMAT test given on 26.07.2010. GP. Hi ... Have got this in my exam today as well !!! My Ques is :: Can I just use the "whether" and "if " difference, to completely rule out 3 wrong options ??? Or is it that while "whether" is preferable, "if" CAN ALSO be used ?? Hence should I look at other indicators before eliminating the choices ? Also, Isn't "HAVING BEEN SENT" very wordy and awkward ??? Shouldn't E be the right choice then ??
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tim
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Post subject: Re: Rather than accept the conventional wisdom that the earth Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:58 pm |
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Yes you can eliminate the three choices that have "if". "if" and "whether" are not interchangeable. You cannot use "if" in a sentence unless there is a "then" part. Note that the word "then" need not appear, but there must be a conclusion (the part that would come after the word "then") anytime you have a hypothesis (the part that comes after the "if")..
No, "having been sent" is not wordy and awkward. Can you come up with any better wording? That's the real test - well, that and whether the better wording actually shows up in an otherwise grammatically correct answer choice..
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Tim Sanders
Manhattan GMAT Instructor
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ananddurai86
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Post subject: Re: Rather than accept the conventional wisdom that the earth Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:53 am |
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The question is wrong guys... i came to know this from a reliable source ..no need to worry.. a corrected version of the same question is released.
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tim
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Post subject: Re: Rather than accept the conventional wisdom that the earth Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:36 am |
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a "reliable source", eh? can you be more specific?
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Tim Sanders
Manhattan GMAT Instructor
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