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 Post subject: Re: Prep Q: Because of wireless service costs plummeting...
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:34 pm 
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Students


Posts: 14
@Ron - Can you please clarify something for me.

Because of wireless service costs plummeting in the last year, and as mobile phones are increasingly common, many people now using their mobile phones to make calls across a wide region at night and on weekends, when numerous wireless companies provide unlimited airtime for a relatively small monthly fee.

A. Because of wireless service costs plummeting in the last year, and as mobile phones are increasingly common, many people

B. As the cost of wireless service plummeted in the last year and as mobile phones became increasingly common, many people

C. In the last year, with the cost of wireless service plummeting, and mobile phones have become increasingly common, there are many people

D. With the cost of wireless service plummeting in the last year and mobile phones becoming increasingly common, many people are

E. While the cost of wireless service has plummeted in the last year and mobile phones are increasingly common, many people are

RonPurewal wrote:
choice (e) can be knocked out for its bad parallelism.
the two actions described at the beginning - cost plummeting, phones becoming more common - are clearly simultaneous, so we need to use parallel structure for these simultaneous events.
the first is "the cost ... has plummeted", so the second MUST be "phones ... have become increasingly common". it's not written that way, so (e) is incorrect.


1)the first clause (the cost has plummeted)
2) the second clause (mobile phones have become increasingly common)
3) "while" - a subordinator is used

Are we not supposed to repeat (According to pg 54 on MGMAT SC guide 4th ed) the subordinator to maintain the parallelism?

Ex: While the cost of wireless service has plummeted in the last year and while the mobile phones have become increasingly common...

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Prep Q: Because of wireless service costs plummeting...
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:43 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 7146
Quote:
Are we not supposed to repeat (According to pg 54 on MGMAT SC guide 4th ed) the subordinator to maintain the parallelism?

Ex: While the cost of wireless service has plummeted in the last year and while the mobile phones have become increasingly common...

Thanks


whoa, we're going to have to edit that page, since neither of these things is really true; (1) you don't have to repeat subordinators**, and (2) it's ok to have different subordinators in parallel.

for proof of (1), see OG verbal supplement #1, which starts with
Like ants, termites have an elaborate social structure in which a few individuals reproduce and the rest are... --> i.e., you don't have to repeat "in which" in front of "the rest are..."

also see this gmat prep problem:
Even though her career was cut short when she was in her prime and the fifteen recordings she made were disappointing artistically as well as technically --> you don't have to repeat "even though" in front of "the fifteen recordings..."
ref: post11370.html#p11370

as for (2), this hasn't really been explicitly tested, but it's ok to have different subordinators as long as they serve the same grammatical purpose overall. for instance, there's nothing wrong with writing people who speak english but whose parents do not.

i will submit this for review.


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 Post subject: Re: Prep Q: Because of wireless service costs plummeting...
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:47 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 7146
**forgot the footnote --

** in some situations, you do have to repeat the subordinator, but not for the sake of parallelism -- rather, for the sake of getting rid of ambiguity.
for instance:
claire said that she finished the test early but her sister took the whole period.
--> AMBIGUOUS
this could mean
(a) claire said both of these things [claire said (X and Y)]
, or (b) claire said the first thing but the narrator knows the second one firsthand [(claire said X) and Y)]

claire said that she finished the test early but that her sister took the whole period.
--> UNAMBIGUOUS
now we know for sure that claire said both of these things.

--

the reason for the confusion can be traced back to an OG10 problem about wolves in minnesota, in which "where ... and where" is used to get rid of the same sort of ambiguity.


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 Post subject: Re: Prep Q: Because of wireless service costs plummeting...
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:11 am 
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Forum Guests


Posts: 206
uttam.albela wrote:
RonPurewal wrote:
kristy11126 wrote:
Because of wireless service costs plummeting in the last year, and as mobile phones are increasingly common, many people now using their mobile phones to make calls across a wide region at night and on weekends, when numerous wireless companies provide unlimited airtime for a relatively small monthly fee.

A. Because of wireless service costs plummeting in the last year, and as mobile phones are increasingly common, many people

B. As the cost of wireless service plummeted in the last year and as mobile phones became increasingly common, many people

C. In the last year, with the cost of wireless service plummeting, and mobile phones have become increasingly common, there are many people

D. With the cost of wireless service plummeting in the last year and mobile phones becoming increasingly common, many people are

E. While the cost of wireless service has plummeted in the last year and mobile phones are increasingly common, many people are


The key is D. Why not E?

In my view, 'with' in choice d seems to imply that many people physically own something.

Here attached another example from prep test,

On account of a law passed in 1993, making it a crime punishable by imprisonment that a United States citizen hold gold in the form of bullion or coins, immigrants found that on arrival in the United States they had to surrender all of the gold they had brought with them.

A. On account of a law passed in 1993, making it a crime punishable by imprisonment that a United States citizen hold
B. With a law passed in 1933 that makes it a crime punishable by imprisonment that a United States citizen hold
C. A law passed in 1933 that made it a crime punishable by imprisonment for a United States citizen holding
D. Because of a law passed in 1933 making it a crime punishable by imprisonment for a United States citizen to hold
E. Due to a law being passed in 1933 that makes it a crime punishable by imprisonment for a United States citizen to hold

The key is D.
'with' in choice b is also bad: it seems to imply that immigrants arrived with the law in their hands.



hm, interesting.

first, you should be able to answer this problem based on heavy hitters such as parallelism.
parallelism is one of the most important error types on the exam, and it's also one of the most common, if not the most common.

choice (e) can be knocked out for its bad parallelism.
the two actions described at the beginning - cost plummeting, phones becoming more common - are clearly simultaneous, so we need to use parallel structure for these simultaneous events.
the first is "the cost ... has plummeted", so the second MUST be "phones ... have become increasingly common". it's not written that way, so (e) is incorrect.

in addition, (e) uses while in a questionable sense. when while appears at the beginning of a clause like this, it's normally used to introduce contrast ("while most of the class spent the weekend studying for class, i spent the weekend at the beach").

--

now, an analysis of the grammatical weirdness that's going on in the correct answer:

i'm learning something new here, but that happens decently often with these things. sentence correction is a slippery fish.

it appears that 'with' may be used with a present participle (-ING form) to represent circumstances that are contemporaneous with the action described in the main clause.
that's what's going on here: the "with ___ing" constructions are used to describe things that are contemporaneous with the described uptick in the use of mobile phones.


First of all, I am a big fan of your each and every explanation. :)

I would just like to add to what you have said here. This is a example of an absolute phrase. And, as Ron rightly said, absolute phrase is used to zoom down at comtemporaneous circumstances associated with main action.
There are two absolute phrase constructs which is known to me
a) With NOUN VERB+ING : With cost of x plummeting, many people are blah -------
b) With NOUN Adverb of place: With twinkle in his eye, the old man said goodbye to his grandson. (copied from DOING GRAMMAR).

When we break these complex sentences into two or more simple sentences, WITH is altogether left out.
When with precedes an absolute phrase, with is an introductory word, like a subordinate conjunction. It is not part of the absolute itself. So absolute phrase that are introduced by with are not prepositional phrases. They remain absolute phrases.

Example: The cost of wireless service are plummeting since (in) the last year.
Mobile phones are becoming increasingly common.
Many people are now using their mobile phones to make calls across a wide region at night and on weekends.

Similarly, we can make simple sentences for 2nd example.
Twinkle was in his eye.
Old man said goodbye to his grandson.

As we see in these examples With is left out when understanding and simplifying the meaning of the absolute prhases starting with WITH (as WITH are not part of it).

Treatment of prepositional phrases starting with WITH is different.
WITH + NOUN (noun of preposition)
Example: With in prepositional phrases change to possessive words like has or have.

A house with a computer and a set of encyclopedias announces the sophistication of its occupants.

a. A house has a computer and a set of encyclopedias.
b. A house announces the sophistication of its occupants.

Note: all information is from DOING GRAMMAR.


you post the nice thing. the problem is that "with..." phrase in D is not refer to "many people" and is correct.

pls, tell me DOING GRAMMAR by what author. I want to see the book. thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Prep Q: Because of wireless service costs plummeting...
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:21 pm 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 7146
thanghnvn wrote:
pls, tell me DOING GRAMMAR by what author. I want to see the book. thank you.


just type "doing grammar" (or "doing grammar amazon" or some other such thing) into google, and you will find the author's name about a hundred million zillion different times.


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 Post subject: Re: Prep Q: Because of wireless service costs plummeting...
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:47 am 
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Prospective Students


Posts: 122
repeat post see below!


Last edited by jp.jprasanna on Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Prep Q: Because of wireless service costs plummeting...
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:50 am 
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Prospective Students


Posts: 122
RonPurewal wrote:
kevinmarmstrong wrote:
B incorrectly uses the past tense before the comma.
More importantly, the sentence lacks a main verb: it should read "many people ARE now using"


yep.

to elaborate on the first point: if the verbs before the comma are in the past tense, then parallelism requires that the verb(s) following the comma also be in the past tense.



hi Ron - Why cant the 2 parts be in different tense? Option B says

As the cost of wireless service plummeted in the last year and as mobile phones became increasingly common,

As clause and As clause
As long the both the part that are connected to "and" are of the same type then we are good right?

For example :

As the fiscal deficit was bridged and as the exports are continuously increasing, Bureaucrats will be spending their vacation in Mexico.

As (clause - past tense) and as (clause - present tense), Subject... (future tense)...

I understand there are other problem with Option B just wanted to clarify on the modifier part!

Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Prep Q: Because of wireless service costs plummeting...
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:01 am 
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Forum Guests


Posts: 206
Pls, help
Can I eliminate E because of " last year", which is not suitable with " has plummet"

I want to comment of "with" in OA , choice D.

normally, in the structure "with phrase" +comma+main clause , "with phrase" modify the main clause AND/OR REFERS TO THE SUBJECT OF THE MAIN CLAUSE.

OA D shows that "with phrase" dose not need to refers to the subject of the main clause. inhere, "with phrase" modify the main clause without refering to the subject of the main clause. This point is a good lession for us.

experts Manhantan, pls, commen on my thinking. Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Prep Q: Because of wireless service costs plummeting...
 Post Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:51 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 2242
Location: Southwest Airlines, seat 21C
JP, i think the big problem is with "as"; "as" conveys a suggestion of things happening simultaneously and thus requires a consistent tense. Change "as" to "because" and i think you'll be okay..

_________________
Tim Sanders
Manhattan GMAT Instructor


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 Post subject: Re: Prep Q: Because of wireless service costs plummeting...
 Post Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 9:54 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 2242
Location: Southwest Airlines, seat 21C
thanghnvn wrote:
Pls, help
Can I eliminate E because of " last year", which is not suitable with " has plummet"

I want to comment of "with" in OA , choice D.

normally, in the structure "with phrase" +comma+main clause , "with phrase" modify the main clause AND/OR REFERS TO THE SUBJECT OF THE MAIN CLAUSE.

OA D shows that "with phrase" dose not need to refers to the subject of the main clause. inhere, "with phrase" modify the main clause without refering to the subject of the main clause. This point is a good lession for us.

experts Manhantan, pls, commen on my thinking. Thank you.


no, you cannot eliminate E based on the issue you're looking at. that verb is perfectly appropriate given the time frame..

your comment on D is at best nonsensical and at worst contradictory. care to try again?

_________________
Tim Sanders
Manhattan GMAT Instructor


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