Register    Login    Search    Rss Feeds

 Page 1 of 2 [ 24 posts ] Go to page 1, 2  Next



 
Author Message
 Post subject: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:49 am 
Offline


Posts: 35
Source GMATprep
It is unclear whether chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species in their ability to learn behaviors from one another, or if, when other animals are studied in as much depth, similar patterns would be found.
A. if, when other animals are studied in as much depth, similar patterns would be found
B. if other animals were studied with as much depth they would exhibit similar patterns
C. would similar patterns be found in other animals if they were studied in as much depth
D. whether similar patterns would be exhibited in other animals that were studied with as much depth
E. whether other animals would exhibit similar patterns if they were studied in as much depth

I could not figure out the right choice. What is the recommended approach? Thanks in advance.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:16 pm 
Offline


Posts: 4
is it B?


Top 
 Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm 
Offline
ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 8087
pmal04 wrote:
Source GMATprep
It is unclear whether chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species in their ability to learn behaviors from one another, or if, when other animals are studied in as much depth, similar patterns would be found.
A. if, when other animals are studied in as much depth, similar patterns would be found
B. if other animals were studied with as much depth they would exhibit similar patterns
C. would similar patterns be found in other animals if they were studied in as much depth
D. whether similar patterns would be exhibited in other animals that were studied with as much depth
E. whether other animals would exhibit similar patterns if they were studied in as much depth

I could not figure out the right choice. What is the recommended approach? Thanks in advance.


(a), (b), and (c) are immediately gone because they lack elementary parallelism.
you have two elements that are clearly intended to be in parallel. the first begins with "whether". therefore, the second must also begin with "whether". only (d) and (e) do so.

(d) vs. (e) is tougher than usual here. i'd go with (e), for two reasons:
* "with as much depth" is unidiomatic; the proper idiom is "in as much depth"
* (d) is VERY needlessly wordy, and uses the passive voice unnecessarily. (not only does this use of the passive voice possibly distort the meaning, but it also breaks parallelism with the first part, which is written in the active voice.)

--

i can see an argument against (e) on the basis of "ambiguous pronoun".

however, it has been well established that the gmat will tolerate ambiguous pronouns to some degree, especially if those pronouns are CLEARLY PARALLEL TO THEIR ANTECEDENTS.
see here:
post14406.html#p14406
in choice (e), that requisite parallelism exists: "other animals" is the SUBJECT of the "would exhibit" clause, and "they" is the SUBJECT of its own clause.

--

(e) wins.

_________________
Being well-dressed gives a feeling of inward tranquillity [that] religion is powerless to bestow.
C.F. Forbes


Top 
 Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:04 pm 
Offline


Posts: 35
Thanks Ron for your nice & clear explanation.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:38 am 
Offline
Forum Guests


Posts: 8
I also feel E is better.

However, in this question, the word 'their' preceding 'they', aren't the two prons supposed to refer the same thing?


Top 
 Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:55 am 
Offline
ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 8087
kevinluocw wrote:
However, in this question, the word 'their' preceding 'they', aren't the two prons supposed to refer the same thing?


not unless they're used close to each other, with no nouns in between.

since there are nouns intervening between these two pronouns, the pronouns can legitimately stand for different things.

in fact, in situations like this, parallelism will often dictate that the two "they"s MUST stand for different things.

here's an example:
bird x can reach farther with its beak than lizard y can with its tongue.
this example is grammatically a-ok.
the first "its" refers to bird x, and the second "its" refers to lizard y. any other interpretation would be forbidden because it would violate proper parallelism.
all good.

_________________
Being well-dressed gives a feeling of inward tranquillity [that] religion is powerless to bestow.
C.F. Forbes


Top 
 Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:57 pm 
Offline
Course Students


Posts: 88
RonPurewal wrote:
pmal04 wrote:
Source GMATprep
It is unclear whether chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species in their ability to learn behaviors from one another, or if, when other animals are studied in as much depth, similar patterns would be found.
A. if, when other animals are studied in as much depth, similar patterns would be found
B. if other animals were studied with as much depth they would exhibit similar patterns
C. would similar patterns be found in other animals if they were studied in as much depth
D. whether similar patterns would be exhibited in other animals that were studied with as much depth
E. whether other animals would exhibit similar patterns if they were studied in as much depth

I could not figure out the right choice. What is the recommended approach? Thanks in advance.


(a), (b), and (c) are immediately gone because they lack elementary parallelism.
you have two elements that are clearly intended to be in parallel. the first begins with "whether". therefore, the second must also begin with "whether". only (d) and (e) do so.

(d) vs. (e) is tougher than usual here. i'd go with (e), for two reasons:
* "with as much depth" is unidiomatic; the proper idiom is "in as much depth"
* (d) is VERY needlessly wordy, and uses the passive voice unnecessarily. (not only does this use of the passive voice possibly distort the meaning, but it also breaks parallelism with the first part, which is written in the active voice.)

--

i can see an argument against (e) on the basis of "ambiguous pronoun".

however, it has been well established that the gmat will tolerate ambiguous pronouns to some degree, especially if those pronouns are CLEARLY PARALLEL TO THEIR ANTECEDENTS.
see here:
post14406.html#p14406
in choice (e), that requisite parallelism exists: "other animals" is the SUBJECT of the "would exhibit" clause, and "they" is the SUBJECT of its own clause.

--

(e) wins.



Hi Ron, I have a question regarding this rule. Problem D42 OG 12 in options B and C uses a similar structure

Subject + Verb + obj + even if + they.

The explanation says that the pronoun they refers to the object. I think that it should refer to the subject as you pointed out. Could you clarify this? I'm sure that my analysis of both structures is not correct.

Thank you in advance.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:44 am 
Offline
ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 8087
mikrodj wrote:
Hi Ron, I have a question regarding this rule. Problem D42 OG 12 in options B and C uses a similar structure

Subject + Verb + obj + even if + they.

The explanation says that the pronoun they refers to the object. I think that it should refer to the subject as you pointed out. Could you clarify this? I'm sure that my analysis of both structures is not correct.

Thank you in advance.


very interesting.

this is one of those instances in which the problems themselves do one thing, but the answer keys say another. (it's obvious that the problems and the answer keys are written by different people.)

i would just ignore the answer key to that particular problem. yikes.

_________________
Being well-dressed gives a feeling of inward tranquillity [that] religion is powerless to bestow.
C.F. Forbes


Top 
 Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:46 am 
Offline
Students


Posts: 7
Ron,

Regarding how to eliminate D -

1. Can we say that 'exhibited in other animals' is not the correct idiom? Shouldn't it be 'exhibited BY other animals'?

2. Also, to make choice D correct shouldn't it be - 'in other animals if they were studied in as much depth'? I feel the 'animals that were studied' is wrong because it needs the conditional operator 'if'.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:13 am 
Offline
ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 8087
sidhu4u wrote:
Ron,

Regarding how to eliminate D -


i did make a few comments on choice (d) in the following post -- did you see it?
post27094.html#p27094

Quote:
1. Can we say that 'exhibited in other animals' is not the correct idiom? Shouldn't it be 'exhibited BY other animals'?


i wouldn't give a 100% certain verdict on this one. one thing about which i'm fairly sure is that this is not an issue of idiomatic usage; the choice of the word “by” is a function of the standard use of the passive voice.
while “being” does not jibe with the normal use of the passive voice, it might still work, if the sentence is interpreted as just "exhibited" (i.e., a passive-voice construction WITHOUT "by NOUN"), and then "in animals..." is just interpreted as a completely separate prepositional phrase, describing where these observations are found.

Quote:
2. Also, to make choice D correct shouldn't it be - 'in other animals if they were studied in as much depth'? I feel the 'animals that were studied' is wrong because it needs the conditional operator 'if'.


again, i'm not sure about this. this is one of those borderline calls about which we can't really be sure unless it is the only error in the sentence; since there are plenty of other things that are suspect about that choice, we can't really decide for sure.
i agree with you that the version you have put forward sounds better, but sometimes gmac's decisions regarding usage are surprising; therefore, it's best to hold back on conclusive judgment until we see more definitive evidence.

_________________
Being well-dressed gives a feeling of inward tranquillity [that] religion is powerless to bestow.
C.F. Forbes


Top 
 Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:47 am 
Offline
Students


Posts: 7
Thanks Ron. Choice E does look better considering parallelism.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:34 pm 
Offline
ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 4404
Location: Southwest Airlines, seat 21C
:)

_________________
Tim Sanders
Manhattan GMAT Instructor


Top 
 Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:45 am 
Offline
Students


Posts: 31
Hi Ron,
i'm a non-native speaker and i have a question relating to the meaning of D and E of this sc. Do D and E have any difference in meaning? If any please kindly help me to clarify.
Thank you


Top 
 Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:24 pm 
Offline
ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 2390
phuonglink wrote:
Hi Ron,
i'm a non-native speaker and i have a question relating to the meaning of D and E of this sc. Do D and E have any difference in meaning? If any please kindly help me to clarify.
Thank you


phuong, I don't see a huge difference in meaning between D and E, but as Ron pointed out D is written in passive voice and is much more wordy than choice E. All else equal, active voice is preferred to passive voice, and the rest of the sentence is written in active voice. Thus, E is the winner.

_________________
Jamie Nelson
ManhattanGMAT Instructor


Top 
 Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:56 am 
Offline
Students


Posts: 31
jnelson0612 wrote:
phuonglink wrote:
Hi Ron,
i'm a non-native speaker and i have a question relating to the meaning of D and E of this sc. Do D and E have any difference in meaning? If any please kindly help me to clarify.
Thank you


phuong, I don't see a huge difference in meaning between D and E, but as Ron pointed out D is written in passive voice and is much more wordy than choice E. All else equal, active voice is preferred to passive voice, and the rest of the sentence is written in active voice. Thus, E is the winner.

Thank you very much for your prompt reply Nelson. Huhm it really makes sense after i review the sc under your instruction. Btw, I used to read your explanation about the usage of semicolon finding it is really kul.


Top 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
 Page 1 of 2 [ 24 posts ] Go to page 1, 2  Next





Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: