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pmal04
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Post subject: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:49 am |
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Source GMATprep It is unclear whether chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species in their ability to learn behaviors from one another, or if, when other animals are studied in as much depth, similar patterns would be found. A. if, when other animals are studied in as much depth, similar patterns would be found B. if other animals were studied with as much depth they would exhibit similar patterns C. would similar patterns be found in other animals if they were studied in as much depth D. whether similar patterns would be exhibited in other animals that were studied with as much depth E. whether other animals would exhibit similar patterns if they were studied in as much depth
I could not figure out the right choice. What is the recommended approach? Thanks in advance.
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ashwani.mittal
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Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:16 pm |
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RonPurewal
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Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm |
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pmal04 wrote: Source GMATprep It is unclear whether chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species in their ability to learn behaviors from one another, or if, when other animals are studied in as much depth, similar patterns would be found. A. if, when other animals are studied in as much depth, similar patterns would be found B. if other animals were studied with as much depth they would exhibit similar patterns C. would similar patterns be found in other animals if they were studied in as much depth D. whether similar patterns would be exhibited in other animals that were studied with as much depth E. whether other animals would exhibit similar patterns if they were studied in as much depth
I could not figure out the right choice. What is the recommended approach? Thanks in advance. (a), (b), and (c) are immediately gone because they lack elementary parallelism. you have two elements that are clearly intended to be in parallel. the first begins with "whether". therefore, the second must also begin with "whether". only (d) and (e) do so. (d) vs. (e) is tougher than usual here. i'd go with (e), for two reasons: * " with as much depth" is unidiomatic; the proper idiom is " in as much depth" * (d) is VERY needlessly wordy, and uses the passive voice unnecessarily. (not only does this use of the passive voice possibly distort the meaning, but it also breaks parallelism with the first part, which is written in the active voice.) -- i can see an argument against (e) on the basis of "ambiguous pronoun". however, it has been well established that the gmat will tolerate ambiguous pronouns to some degree, especially if those pronouns are CLEARLY PARALLEL TO THEIR ANTECEDENTS. see here: post14406.html#p14406in choice (e), that requisite parallelism exists: "other animals" is the SUBJECT of the "would exhibit" clause, and "they" is the SUBJECT of its own clause. -- (e) wins.
_________________ Being well-dressed gives a feeling of inward tranquillity [that] religion is powerless to bestow. C.F. Forbes
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pmal04
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Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:04 pm |
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Thanks Ron for your nice & clear explanation.
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kevinluocw
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Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:38 am |
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I also feel E is better.
However, in this question, the word 'their' preceding 'they', aren't the two prons supposed to refer the same thing?
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RonPurewal
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Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:55 am |
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kevinluocw wrote: However, in this question, the word 'their' preceding 'they', aren't the two prons supposed to refer the same thing? not unless they're used close to each other, with no nouns in between. since there are nouns intervening between these two pronouns, the pronouns can legitimately stand for different things. in fact, in situations like this, parallelism will often dictate that the two "they"s MUST stand for different things. here's an example: bird x can reach farther with its beak than lizard y can with its tongue.this example is grammatically a-ok. the first "its" refers to bird x, and the second "its" refers to lizard y. any other interpretation would be forbidden because it would violate proper parallelism. all good.
_________________ Being well-dressed gives a feeling of inward tranquillity [that] religion is powerless to bestow. C.F. Forbes
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mikrodj
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Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:57 pm |
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RonPurewal wrote: pmal04 wrote: Source GMATprep It is unclear whether chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species in their ability to learn behaviors from one another, or if, when other animals are studied in as much depth, similar patterns would be found. A. if, when other animals are studied in as much depth, similar patterns would be found B. if other animals were studied with as much depth they would exhibit similar patterns C. would similar patterns be found in other animals if they were studied in as much depth D. whether similar patterns would be exhibited in other animals that were studied with as much depth E. whether other animals would exhibit similar patterns if they were studied in as much depth
I could not figure out the right choice. What is the recommended approach? Thanks in advance. (a), (b), and (c) are immediately gone because they lack elementary parallelism. you have two elements that are clearly intended to be in parallel. the first begins with "whether". therefore, the second must also begin with "whether". only (d) and (e) do so. (d) vs. (e) is tougher than usual here. i'd go with (e), for two reasons: * " with as much depth" is unidiomatic; the proper idiom is " in as much depth" * (d) is VERY needlessly wordy, and uses the passive voice unnecessarily. (not only does this use of the passive voice possibly distort the meaning, but it also breaks parallelism with the first part, which is written in the active voice.) -- i can see an argument against (e) on the basis of "ambiguous pronoun". however, it has been well established that the gmat will tolerate ambiguous pronouns to some degree, especially if those pronouns are CLEARLY PARALLEL TO THEIR ANTECEDENTS. see here: post14406.html#p14406in choice (e), that requisite parallelism exists: "other animals" is the SUBJECT of the "would exhibit" clause, and "they" is the SUBJECT of its own clause. -- (e) wins. Hi Ron, I have a question regarding this rule. Problem D42 OG 12 in options B and C uses a similar structure Subject + Verb + obj + even if + they. The explanation says that the pronoun they refers to the object. I think that it should refer to the subject as you pointed out. Could you clarify this? I'm sure that my analysis of both structures is not correct. Thank you in advance.
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RonPurewal
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Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:44 am |
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mikrodj wrote: Hi Ron, I have a question regarding this rule. Problem D42 OG 12 in options B and C uses a similar structure
Subject + Verb + obj + even if + they.
The explanation says that the pronoun they refers to the object. I think that it should refer to the subject as you pointed out. Could you clarify this? I'm sure that my analysis of both structures is not correct.
Thank you in advance. very interesting. this is one of those instances in which the problems themselves do one thing, but the answer keys say another. (it's obvious that the problems and the answer keys are written by different people.) i would just ignore the answer key to that particular problem. yikes.
_________________ Being well-dressed gives a feeling of inward tranquillity [that] religion is powerless to bestow. C.F. Forbes
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sidhu4u
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Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:46 am |
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Ron,
Regarding how to eliminate D -
1. Can we say that 'exhibited in other animals' is not the correct idiom? Shouldn't it be 'exhibited BY other animals'?
2. Also, to make choice D correct shouldn't it be - 'in other animals if they were studied in as much depth'? I feel the 'animals that were studied' is wrong because it needs the conditional operator 'if'.
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RonPurewal
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Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:13 am |
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sidhu4u wrote: Ron,
Regarding how to eliminate D - i did make a few comments on choice (d) in the following post -- did you see it? post27094.html#p27094Quote: 1. Can we say that 'exhibited in other animals' is not the correct idiom? Shouldn't it be 'exhibited BY other animals'? i wouldn't give a 100% certain verdict on this one. one thing about which i'm fairly sure is that this is not an issue of idiomatic usage; the choice of the word “by” is a function of the standard use of the passive voice. while “being” does not jibe with the normal use of the passive voice, it might still work, if the sentence is interpreted as just "exhibited" (i.e., a passive-voice construction WITHOUT "by NOUN"), and then "in animals..." is just interpreted as a completely separate prepositional phrase, describing where these observations are found. Quote: 2. Also, to make choice D correct shouldn't it be - 'in other animals if they were studied in as much depth'? I feel the 'animals that were studied' is wrong because it needs the conditional operator 'if'. again, i'm not sure about this. this is one of those borderline calls about which we can't really be sure unless it is the only error in the sentence; since there are plenty of other things that are suspect about that choice, we can't really decide for sure. i agree with you that the version you have put forward sounds better, but sometimes gmac's decisions regarding usage are surprising; therefore, it's best to hold back on conclusive judgment until we see more definitive evidence.
_________________ Being well-dressed gives a feeling of inward tranquillity [that] religion is powerless to bestow. C.F. Forbes
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sidhu4u
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Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:47 am |
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Thanks Ron. Choice E does look better considering parallelism.
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tim
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Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:34 pm |
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Posts: 4410 Location: Southwest Airlines, seat 21C
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:)
_________________ Tim Sanders Manhattan GMAT Instructor
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phuonglink
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Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:45 am |
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Hi Ron, i'm a non-native speaker and i have a question relating to the meaning of D and E of this sc. Do D and E have any difference in meaning? If any please kindly help me to clarify. Thank you
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jnelson0612
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Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:24 pm |
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phuonglink wrote: Hi Ron, i'm a non-native speaker and i have a question relating to the meaning of D and E of this sc. Do D and E have any difference in meaning? If any please kindly help me to clarify. Thank you phuong, I don't see a huge difference in meaning between D and E, but as Ron pointed out D is written in passive voice and is much more wordy than choice E. All else equal, active voice is preferred to passive voice, and the rest of the sentence is written in active voice. Thus, E is the winner.
_________________ Jamie Nelson ManhattanGMAT Instructor
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phuonglink
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Post subject: Re: SC:GMATp:chimpanzees are unique among nonhuman species Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:56 am |
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jnelson0612 wrote: phuonglink wrote: Hi Ron, i'm a non-native speaker and i have a question relating to the meaning of D and E of this sc. Do D and E have any difference in meaning? If any please kindly help me to clarify. Thank you phuong, I don't see a huge difference in meaning between D and E, but as Ron pointed out D is written in passive voice and is much more wordy than choice E. All else equal, active voice is preferred to passive voice, and the rest of the sentence is written in active voice. Thus, E is the winner. Thank you very much for your prompt reply Nelson. Huhm it really makes sense after i review the sc under your instruction. Btw, I used to read your explanation about the usage of semicolon finding it is really kul.
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