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Subjunctive verb

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rajk
 Post subject: Subjunctive verb
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:17 am 
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Posts: 2
My understanding based on the SC guide that "suggest" is a subjunctive and should be followed by that and clause, verb in the clause should be base form.

I came across following question in one of the MGMAT CAT's, in which correct choice does not follow that pattern, can somebody explain why that is

Some scientists suggest the moon had been formed out of part of the Earth, which was dislodged perhaps by a meteor.
A)the moon had been formed out of part of the Earth, which was dislodged perhaps
B)that the moon was formed from part of the Earth that had perhaps been dislodged
C)that part of the Earth formed the moon, which was dislodged perhaps
D)the moon was formed out of part of the Earth, having perhaps been dislodged
E)that the moon had been formed from part of the Earth, which perhaps had been dislodged

Thanks
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sunny.jain
 Post subject: Re: Subjunctive verb
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:12 am 
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Posts: 111
I actually really dont understand what are you trying to say, can you please elaborate with an example.

For this Question..
I think the answer Should be C.

Reason:
SUGGEST: means a thought so should be followed by 'that'.

Clause after that that should have bare form of verb, only 'be' not 'to be',
I've read it somewhere.

Which was dislodge perhaps :-- modifier, should touch Moon.

C has everything that we want.
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rajk
 Post subject: Re: Subjunctive verb
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:46 pm 
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I agree with your explanation.
That is what exactly I was trying to say.
anyway answer is "B" that is my confusion
can somebody pls clarify
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kuiper22
 Post subject: Re: Subjunctive verb
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:25 am 
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The answer is 'B' because in this sentence the verb 'had' uses it's past perfect form. The 'dislodging' happened before 'formation' of the moon and needs to be clearly indicated by the verb which is why it's --> choice 'B'
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vrajesh.dave
 Post subject: Re: Subjunctive verb
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:16 pm 
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what is OA?
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NIKESH_PAHUJA
 Post subject: Re: Subjunctive verb
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:33 pm 
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Posts: 51
Guys,

It has to be B.

@rajk,

Here suggest wont act as subjunctive.

It is used in context of proposing a hypothesis.

so they are proposing a hypothesis that moon was perhaps formed this way.

And use of past perfect is perfectly fine here because first the part wad dislodged and then the moon was formed .

Instructors,

I would be great if you could clarify the following doubts

the moon was formed out of part of the Earth, having perhaps been dislodged

In this case, the adverbial clause refers to the moon or the earth?
and what is the general rule for such cases
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RonPurewal
 Post subject: Re: Subjunctive verb
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:30 pm 
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Posts: 6765
NIKESH_PAHUJA wrote:
the moon was formed out of part of the Earth, having perhaps been dislodged

In this case, the adverbial clause refers to the moon or the earth?
and what is the general rule for such cases


the "comma + ing" modifier should only be used when:

(A)
it MODIFIES THE ENTIRE ACTION of the preceding clause, and it APPLIES TO THE SUBJECT of that clause;

AND

(B)
one of the following is true:
(1) the "ing" action is SIMULTANEOUS with, and SUBORDINATE to, the main action;
- i ran down the sidewalk, flapping my arms wildly
(2) the "ing" action is a DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE CONSEQUENCE of the main action.
- i got a 100 on the most recent exam, bringing my average up to 91

--

since COMMA + -ING clauses are automatically attributed to the SUBJECT of the preceding clause, this modifies the moon.
as it clearly should, in context.

also note that it applies not only to that subject, but to the entire action of that clause (this is what makes it "adverbial").
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RonPurewal
 Post subject: Re: Subjunctive verb
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:36 pm 
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Posts: 6765
rajk wrote:
My understanding based on the SC guide that "suggest" is a subjunctive and should be followed by that and clause, verb in the clause should be base form.


you can't just memorize a 1-1 correspondence between verbs and subjunctive/not subjunctive. it depends on CONTEXT.

if a verb represents a DEMAND, COMMAND, REQUEST, or STATEMENT OF IMPORTANCE*, then you should use the subjunctive.
(*there could be a couple of other categories -- but this is the general idea)

if not, then you don't.

often, the same word straddles both categories.

"suggest" is one of these words.

james suggested that the meeting be postponed.
--> since this takes the form of a request, you use the subjunctive.

the scientist suggested that evolution occurs by sudden, drastic change rather than by gradual, incremental change.
--> this is clearly not a suggestion (i.e., the scientist is not submitting a request to his favorite deity). instead, the scientist is putting forward a hypothesis about what may or may not be true.
no subjunctive.

this problem conforms to the second of these, and not to the first. hence, no subjunctive.
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