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 Post subject: Diesel engines burn as much as 30% less fuel
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:59 am 
Diesel engines burn as much as 30% less fuel than gasoline engines of comparable size, as well as emitting far less carbon dioxide gas and far fewer of the other gasses that have been implicated in global warming.
A of comparable size, as well as emitting far less carbon dioxide gas and far fewer of the other gasses that have
B of comparable size, as well as emit far less carbon dioxide gas and far fewer of the other gasses having
C of comparable size, and also they emit far fewer carbon dioxide and other gasses that have
D that have a comparable size, and also they emit far fewer of the other gasses having
E that have a comparable size, as well as emitting far fewer of the other gasses having
OA is A. I wish to what is wrong with B?
Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Diesel engines burn as much as 30% less fuel
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:24 pm 
vietst wrote:
Diesel engines burn as much as 30% less fuel than gasoline engines of comparable size, as well as emitting far less carbon dioxide gas and far fewer of the other gasses that have been implicated in global warming.
A of comparable size, as well as emitting far less carbon dioxide gas and far fewer of the other gasses that have
B of comparable size, as well as emit far less carbon dioxide gas and far fewer of the other gasses having
C of comparable size, and also they emit far fewer carbon dioxide and other gasses that have
D that have a comparable size, and also they emit far fewer of the other gasses having
E that have a comparable size, as well as emitting far fewer of the other gasses having
OA is A. I wish to what is wrong with B?
Thanks


A) 'as well as emitting....' is an adverbial modifer correctly modifying the phrase 'Diesel engines burn as much as 30% less fuel ...'
B) 'as well as emit ...' is an adjective modifier incorrectly modifying the nound 'gasoline engines of comparable size'


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 Post subject: Re: Diesel engines burn as much as 30% less fuel
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:49 am 
Offline
ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 4420
vietst wrote:
Diesel engines burn as much as 30% less fuel than gasoline engines of comparable size, as well as emitting far less carbon dioxide gas and far fewer of the other gasses that have been implicated in global warming.
A of comparable size, as well as emitting far less carbon dioxide gas and far fewer of the other gasses that have
B of comparable size, as well as emit far less carbon dioxide gas and far fewer of the other gasses having
C of comparable size, and also they emit far fewer carbon dioxide and other gasses that have
D that have a comparable size, and also they emit far fewer of the other gasses having
E that have a comparable size, as well as emitting far fewer of the other gasses having
OA is A. I wish to what is wrong with B?
Thanks


are you sure you've copied this problem correctly? if you have, then i think it's the ugliest gmatprep problem i've ever seen.
first of all, i don't like 'as much as 30% less fuel', which is ambiguous: it could mean (1) it burns less fuel than gas engines by up to 30% (i.e., it burns that much fuel or more), or (2) it burns a maximum of 30% less fuel - i.e., that much fuel or less (in the same way as 'up to 8 gallons' clearly means 8 gallons or less).
additionally, 'as well as emitting' seems like the kind of thing that the gmat would brand as 'awkward and wordy', because it can so easily be replaced by and emit.
ick.

--

in choice b, 'as well as emit' is just plain wrong. memorize this as idiomatic usage if you like, but you can't use 'as well as' with that type of verb form.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:27 am 
Hi ron,

you said that "in choice b, 'as well as emit' is just plain wrong. memorize this as idiomatic usage if you like, but you can't use 'as well as' with that type of verb form." Is this applicable to ANY verbs? i know that verbs do not include the participles, but any base form of the verbs shouldn't be used with "as well as"?thanks


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:52 am 
Offline
ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 4420
tarek99 wrote:
Hi ron,

you said that "in choice b, 'as well as emit' is just plain wrong. memorize this as idiomatic usage if you like, but you can't use 'as well as' with that type of verb form." Is this applicable to ANY verbs? i know that verbs do not include the participles, but any base form of the verbs shouldn't be used with "as well as"?thanks


i believe so.

it's unfortunate that gmatprep problems are not accompanied by published solutions, as such solutions would contain the definitive word on issues like these. nevertheless:
- i have never seen such usage in a reputable formal source.
- this source does not mention anything close to that type of usage, leading to a plausible assumption that it's unacceptable.
- the way that phrase is inserted into this problem strongly suggests (esp. in light of my extensive experience examining answer choice patterns on official problems) that it is meant to be incorrect.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:44 pm 
Apologies for bumping up this thread !

Isn't the comparison in "Diesel engines burn as much as 30% less fuel than gasoline engines of comparable size ..." incorrect?

Shouldn't the sentence have a 'do' - "Diesel engines burn as much as ... less fuel than gas engines do? How can a comparison exist between fuel and gasoline engines?

Ron, Could you please help clarify whether my thoughts are correct. Thank you.


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 Post subject: Diesel engines
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:04 pm 
Hi Ron,

According Oxford University Dictionary, "as well as" + participle is an idiom and correct usage.
But I agree with you on the fact this question is counter-intuitive. Its format contradict all we saw till today in OG.


http://www.oup.com/oald-bin/web_getald7index1a.pl
idiom as well (as sb/sth) in addition to sb/sth; too: Are they coming as well? * They sell books as well as newspapers. * She is a talented musician as well as being a photographer. note at "also"

Jenizaros


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 Post subject: Diesel engines
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:08 pm 
Hello again,

To go further, as with many other GMATPREP questions, the original phrase is from an article on New York Times.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... wanted=all

But the use in journal is quite different from that in GMATPREP :

NYT
Diesel engines burn as much as 30 percent less fuel than gasoline engines of comparable size, and they emit far less carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases, which have been implicated in global warming.


JENIZAROS


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 Post subject: Diesel engines
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:21 pm 
Last comment, I promise.

It's clear that it's not the idea answer.
So, we have two possible explanation :
1) The usage, and hence the question is incorrect. (I think it's quite unlikely because until now I've never seen a question that may hurt GMAC's credibility as a trustworthy (and risk averse) institution. )
2) The option A is primus inter pares, it's to say first among equals or best among available options. (I think this is more likely.)

Options A & B are very close to each other, more than others, however there are two differences :

A) of comparable size, as well as emitting far less carbon dioxide gas and far fewer of the other gasses that have
B) of comparable size, as well as emit far less carbon dioxide gas and far fewer of the other gasses having

Hence if we assume the explanation N#2 is correct, then we can deduct that the use of "having" in B is a more grave error (in A, they use the relative pronoun "that") than the use of "as well as + participle" in A.


JENIZAROS


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 Post subject: Re: Diesel engines
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:25 am 
Offline
ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 4420
jenizaros wrote:
Last comment, I promise.

It's clear that it's not the idea answer.
So, we have two possible explanation :
1) The usage, and hence the question is incorrect. (I think it's quite unlikely because until now I've never seen a question that may hurt GMAC's credibility as a trustworthy (and risk averse) institution. )
2) The option A is primus inter pares, it's to say first among equals or best among available options. (I think this is more likely.)

Options A & B are very close to each other, more than others, however there are two differences :

A) of comparable size, as well as emitting far less carbon dioxide gas and far fewer of the other gasses that have
B) of comparable size, as well as emit far less carbon dioxide gas and far fewer of the other gasses having

Hence if we assume the explanation N#2 is correct, then we can deduct that the use of "having" in B is a more grave error (in A, they use the relative pronoun "that") than the use of "as well as + participle" in A.


JENIZAROS


sounds like a reasonable interpretation...

we'll take a look at this one and see whether we can come up with anything brilliant that you haven't already posted here.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:26 am 
Whats wrong with C ???

further it matches the NYT article....


the only issue I saw was with "they" ... but there is logical ||ism.

Ron, need your help...


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:41 am 
oops...missed the fewer...


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:51 am 
Offline
ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 387
Caught it yourself... nice work.


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 Post subject: Deisel Engine
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:43 pm 
I have no idea how to agree with the answer when it has

Diesel engines burn as much as 30% less fuel than gasoline engines of comparable size, as well as emitting far less carbon dioxide gas and far fewer of the other gasses that have been implicated in global warming.
"
"Diesel engines burn and they emit"... how in the world can it be "Diesel engines burn and they emitting?"

I just hope I dont get such a question on the actual one...I am not betting on it though..

Ron, any words of wisdom?

-Raj.

rfernandez wrote:
Caught it yourself... nice work.


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 Post subject: Re: Deisel Engine
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:06 pm 
Offline
ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 4420
Raj wrote:
I have no idea how to agree with the answer when it has

Diesel engines burn as much as 30% less fuel than gasoline engines of comparable size, as well as emitting far less carbon dioxide gas and far fewer of the other gasses that have been implicated in global warming.
"
"Diesel engines burn and they emit"... how in the world can it be "Diesel engines burn and they emitting?"

I just hope I dont get such a question on the actual one...I am not betting on it though..

Ron, any words of wisdom?

-Raj.

rfernandez wrote:
Caught it yourself... nice work.


"as well as" is not a truly parallel construction; it creates a modifier that is not part of the skeleton of the original sentence. modifiers, as we know, don't have to be parallel to the main part of the sentence.

your best route here is just to memorize the fact that "...as well as VERBing" is an acceptable construction. write this down in your notes, and go with it as gospel. you may grumble about it, but it's a fact: it is acceptable, by the standards of the gmat.


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