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Does the integer K have
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Does the integer k have a factor p such that 1<p<k?

1. k>4!
2. 13!+2(<=)k(<=)13!+13

This is from GMAT Prep software (It is also in OG but since the sum is exposed in Prep software I think it should be fine to post this)

The above question has been answered several times by MGMAT... I have a different question though..

From what I understand "K" could range from 13!+2 to 13!+13, which is from 6227020802 to 6227020813 (Calculated).. And the quesion stems asks whether K has a afactor P such that P ranges from 1 to 6227020813.. Right ?

What if P is 6227020801, why is this is a factor ? I know that something is wrong with the way I interpret this sentence but not sure what.. Please explain
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Anyone ?
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I think the range HAS to be less than k, given "such that 1<p<k"
Ron Purewal
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Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 2295

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the question is asking whether k has a factor that is greater than 1, but less than itself.
if you're good at these number property rephrasings, then you can realize that this question is equivalent to "is k non-prime?", which, in turn, because it's a data sufficiency problem (and therefore we don't care whether the answer is "yes" or "no", as long as there's an answer), is equivalent to "is k prime?".
but let's stick to the first question - "does k have a factor that's between 1 and k itself?" - because that's easier to interpret, and, ironically, is easier to think about (on this particular problem) than the prime issue.

--

key realization:
every one of the numbers 2, 3, 4, 5, ..., 12, 13 is a factor of 13!.

this should be clear when you think about the definition of a factorial: it's just the product of all the integers from 1 through 13. because all of those numbers are in the product, they're all factors (some of them several times over).

--

consider the lowest number allowed by statement 2: 13! + 2.
note that 2 goes into 13! (as shown above), and 2 also goes into 2. therefore, 2 is a factor of this sum (answer to question prompt = "yes").

consider the next number allowed by statement 2: 13! + 3.
note that 3 goes into 13! (as shown above), and 3 also goes into 3. therefore, 3 is a factor of this sum (answer to question prompt = "yes").

etc.
all the way to 13! + 13.
works the same way each time.
so the answer is "yes" every time --> sufficient.

--

by the way, the gmat will NEVER, EVER, EVER require you to calculate a value that's even half as ugly as the one that you worked out for this problem (i sincerely hope that you didn't work out that value by hand). if you're even considering doing a calculation like that, run for your life, and try to think about another method.
Does the integer K have
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Ron,

Thanks for the elabrote reply. However I still am not convinced.. we have sucessfully proved that if p ranges from 2 to 13 then yes I agree that p is a factor of k such that 13!+13 > K >13!+2.. What if P exceeds 13 ? Let us consider only the question stem and the 2nd statement.

Stem says 2 things:
1) K is an integer
2) P can range from 1 to K

2nd statement says:
"K" can be any integer from 13!+2(<=)k(<=)13!+13 so in all there are 12 possible values for K

Now it is nowhere mentioned that P cannot exceed 13, what if it does ?.. the highest possible value for P is 13!+12, since it is less than 13!+13 and the lowest possible value for P is 2 as it is greater than 1.. A data sufficiency question is sufficeint only if I can prove that P is always a factor of K...Right ? So what am i missing ?

If it can be proven that every value of P, which ranges from 1 to K is a factor of K, only then it becomes sufficient..Thnx
Re: Does the integer K have
Ron Purewal
MGMAT STAFF

Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 2295

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Anonymous wrote:
Ron,

Thanks for the elabrote reply. However I still am not convinced.. we have sucessfully proved that if p ranges from 2 to 13 then yes I agree that p is a factor of k such that 13!+13 > K >13!+2.. What if P exceeds 13 ? Let us consider only the question stem and the 2nd statement.

Stem says 2 things:
1) K is an integer
2) P can range from 1 to K

2nd statement says:
"K" can be any integer from 13!+2(<=)k(<=)13!+13 so in all there are 12 possible values for K

Now it is nowhere mentioned that P cannot exceed 13, what if it does ?.. the highest possible value for P is 13!+12, since it is less than 13!+13 and the lowest possible value for P is 2 as it is greater than 1.. A data sufficiency question is sufficeint only if I can prove that P is always a factor of K...Right ? So what am i missing ?

If it can be proven that every value of P, which ranges from 1 to K is a factor of K, only then it becomes sufficient..Thnx


before attacking the most difficult data sufficiency problems - such as this one - you should take the time to fully grasp the way data sufficiency works. it doesn't appear that you have yet reached that level of understanding.

remember, as soon as you can ascertain that the prompt question has a definitive answer, then that's "sufficient". there is no need to proceed any further.

in this problem, the prompt asks, "Is there a factor p such that...?"
this means that, if you can show that there is even one such factor, then it's "sufficient" and you are DONE.
we have ascertained that every one of the "k"s in that range has at least one such factor.
to wit, 13! + 2 has the factor 2; 13! + 3 has the factor 3; ...; 13! + 13 has the factor 13.
that's all we need to know.
sufficient.

you are right that it's difficult to ascertain whether numbers greater than 13 are factors of these "k"s. luckily, we don't have to care about that.
Does the integer K have
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