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 Post subject: British India - Who
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:38 am 
Before its independence in 1947, Britain ruled India as a colony and they would relinquish power only after a long struggle by the native people.
Before its independence in 1947, Britain ruled India as a colony and they would relinquish power
Before independence in 1947, Britain had ruled India as a colony and relinquished power
Before its independence in 1947, India was ruled by Britain as a colony and they relinquished power
Before independence in 1947, India had been ruled as a colony by Britain, which relinquished power
Before independence in 1947, India had been a colony of the British, who relinquished power

I was able to narrow down between D and E. I ultimately chose D because "Who" is used for people only and thought that was a bigger mistake than the wordiness. Can someone explain why "who is okay for a country?" Can who be used for any other subjects other than people?


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:56 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 7146
'the british' isn't a country; it's a group of people, and therefore can serve as a proper antecedent for 'who'.

'britain' is a country, and so would need to take 'which'.


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 Post subject: British India - Who
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:32 pm 
I think the answer to this question should be C and not D or E.

SC book clearly writes about exception to the rule of simple/perfect tenses:
Clauses linked by 'before' or 'after' indicate the time sequence very clearly, so you do not generally need to use the past perfect tense.

In this problem, because of the use of 'before independence', we should use simple past i.e. India was ruled. The only problem I could see in this option though is the use 'its' before the subject is introduced in the sentence.

Ron, tutors - please clarify.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:26 am 
Choice D wordy and confusing...you can read it as a colony that was next to britain...also watch out for 'as' use...it makes the sentence wordy...

Choice C is wrong because of they...who relinquished the power? it's not really clear this way and if it were clear then they should 'it' since India is singular...

I'm not an expert but that's the way I see it...


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:08 am 
The main problem with C is the use of 'they' to refer to 'Britain' - "India was ruled by Britain as a colony and they relinquished power".
Even if the rule of tenses is applied 100% of the time (I have my doubts), I would not choose an option in which plural pronoun is used to refer to singular noun.
Tutors,
Can you confirm if the tense rule referred to by viksnme is applicable in every case.


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 Post subject: British India - Who
 Post Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:32 pm 
Before its independence in 1947, Britain ruled India as a colony and they would relinquish power only after a long struggle by the native people.

This original sentence has couple of errors.
1) "Its" has no clear antecedent, moreover its use it not at all required.
2) Modifier "Before its independence in 1947" should modify "India" and not "Britain".
3) "Britain" is singular, so use of plural "they" to refer it is incorrect.

A) Original sentence incorrect.
B) Modifier problem is not solved in this option.
C) Modifier problem is solved but "They and Its" problem still intact in this option.
D) Modifier problem is solved but have you ever heard a word such as "ruled as a colony". It is unidiomatic.
E) This option is correct. In normal speech you often say "former British colony, or french colony" so nothing wrong with this phrase. No modifier, "they" or "its" problem. "Who" is unambiguously referring to British.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:16 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 6077
Location: San Francisco
Please read (and follow!) the forum rules. Your subject line should be the first 5-8 words of the problem.

"before" places the "independence" portion of the sentence relative to the following clause. It does not place the "who relinquished power" portion of the sentence. We still have two events: (1) had been a colony, and (2) the people who relinquished power only after a long struggle. That's our past perfect / simple past mix in this case.

This is not the same thing as saying, for example:
Before she went to the store, she stopped by her mom's house.
Now, the before is actually linking the only two events we have here.

Also, for that before/after rule. It's not saying that you cannot have past perfect - only that it's not required any more. Typically, if the meaning of the sentence is "this one thing happened RIGHT before this other thing - very close in time" then I don't generally use past perfect. If they are still widely separated, though, then I may use it.

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Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director of Online Community
ManhattanGMAT


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:12 am 
skoprince wrote:
Please read (and follow!) the forum rules. Your subject line should be the first 5-8 words of the problem.

"before" places the "independence" portion of the sentence relative to the following clause. It does not place the "who relinquished power" portion of the sentence. We still have two events: (1) had been a colony, and (2) the people who relinquished power only after a long struggle. That's our past perfect / simple past mix in this case.

This is not the same thing as saying, for example:
Before she went to the store, she stopped by her mom's house.
Now, the before is actually linking the only two events we have here.

Also, for that before/after rule. It's not saying that you cannot have past perfect - only that it's not required any more. Typically, if the meaning of the sentence is "this one thing happened RIGHT before this other thing - very close in time" then I don't generally use past perfect. If they are still widely separated, though, then I may use it.


Thanks Stacey for the clarification. I understand it better now.


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 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 1:22 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 6077
Location: San Francisco
You're welcome!

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Stacey Koprince
Instructor
Director of Online Community
ManhattanGMAT


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 Post subject: Re: British India - Who
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:03 am 
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Students


Posts: 16
Can someone please explain why D is wrong?


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 Post subject: Re: British India - Who
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:07 pm 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 7146
enniguy wrote:
Can someone please explain why D is wrong?


"ruled as a colony" is unclear.

the gmat doesn't tolerate this sort of circumlocution. you have to say things directly.
i.e., if india WAS a colony, then you have to say that it WAS a colony.
"ruled as a colony" doesn't necessarily mean that; it could just signify that india was ruled as though it were a colony, even though it wasn't one.

--

analogy:

joe was a slave --> he was actually a slave.
joe was treated as a slave --> he probably wasn't a slave.

same problem in (d).


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 Post subject: Re: British India - Who
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:59 pm 
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Course Students


Posts: 25
Agree E is the answer.

I picked up in first go, wonderful explanation and clarification by Stacey on past perfect tense usage

hats off


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 Post subject: Re: British India - Who
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:00 pm 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 901
Location: St. Louis, MO
Glad it helped, gorav.s!

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Emily Sledge
Instructor
ManhattanGMAT


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 Post subject: Re: British India - Who
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:45 am 
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Students


Posts: 12
I am convinced with the OA and the related reasoning

However, I feel option B cannot be discarded because of the modifier issue.
option B says ,"Before Independence in 1947" and NOT "Before its independence in 1947" . These 2 modifiers are different and option B is correct as Independence is just an event and is not linked to Britain or India

Even MGMAT in its explanation says

(B) Britain should not be the recipient of the modifier "Before its independence."

It might be a typo.


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 Post subject: Re: British India - Who
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:01 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 7146
gmatprep14 wrote:
I am convinced with the OA and the related reasoning

However, I feel option B cannot be discarded because of the modifier issue.
option B says ,"Before Independence in 1947" and NOT "Before its independence in 1947" . These 2 modifiers are different and option B is correct as Independence is just an event and is not linked to Britain or India

Even MGMAT in its explanation says

(B) Britain should not be the recipient of the modifier "Before its independence."

It might be a typo.


not really. even without the "its", this modifier still VERY strongly indicates that the independence refers to britain, not india.
if you don't see this, try replacing "britain" and "india" with the names of two fictitious nations, such as "esteria" and "burdistan". with those fictitious names in there, it should be easier to see the default meaning of the modifier.


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