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nandsharma
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Post subject: Mine Safety Question- Number vs Amount Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:26 am |
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The administration has increased the number of fines for mining safety violations as part of their campaign to protect miners. has increased the number of fines for mining safety violations as part of their have increased the number of fines for mining safety violations as part of their has increased the number of fines for mining safety violations as part of its has increased the amount of fines for mining safety violations as part of its have increased the amount of fines for mining safety violations as part of their
Between C&D, I chose D. Official explanation for D: "However, the use of “amount” is incorrect. “Amount is used for uncountable quantities. “Fines” are countable, and so “number” should be used."
Why is it wrong to say "amount of fines"? The administration could have increased the amount for existing fines: for ex, the fines were increased from $100 to $200. Is it because the original sentence talks about the "number of fines" and hence we should stick with that?
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sunny.jain
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Post subject: Re: Mine Safety Question- Number vs Amount Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:08 am |
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i think "amount of fine" is wrong. Because fine is countable item.
Value of fine is correct usage.for eg: value of fine was 500$. But most of places, it's wrongly used as "amount of fine is 500$".
On the very first attempt even i choose "Option D", then i googled on google scholar by "amount of fine" and "value of fine".
Amount of fine has few results as compare with number of results with value of fine.
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abhasjha
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Post subject: Re: Mine Safety Question- Number vs Amount Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:38 am |
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Is it correct to say " the number of fines " ???
As much as i know - "the number of " always takes a singular referent and A number of " will take a plural referent .
Is not "fines " plural and if it so how can we say "the number of fines" ....
This in my opinion renders Option C incorrect ......
instructutors could you please have a look at it .
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anoo.anand
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Post subject: Re: Mine Safety Question- Number vs Amount Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:22 pm |
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has increased the amount of fines for mining safety violations as part of
D is correct here...
Fine meanls a penalty... amount means...the amount of money in that penalty..
so amount should be used.
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gorav.s
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Post subject: Re: Mine Safety Question- Number vs Amount Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:12 am |
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Given the choices C seems the best. For the same reason that we should stick to the original meaning of sentence - which seems to suggest that total number of fines shall be increased and not the value of the fine.
Also "the number " as rightly pointed out here - as also present in the Manhattan SC guide - is singular here.
So there is nothing wrong in saying - Admnistration has increased the number . What is the problem here, - it seems fine to me.
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RonPurewal
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Post subject: Re: Mine Safety Question- Number vs Amount Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:28 am |
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Quote: Why is it wrong to say "amount of fines"? The administration could have increased the amount for existing fines: for ex, the fines were increased from $100 to $200. i hear you on this, but you'd still have a singular/plural problem. if you're talking about ONE fine amount, as you do here, then you would say "amount (sing.) of the fine (sing.)". if you're talking about several different levels of fines, then you would say "amounts (sing.) of the fines (sing.)".
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induskakade
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Post subject: Re: Mine Safety Question- Number vs Amount Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:29 am |
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Thanks for the explanation!
While C is correct when we intend to convey the meaning that it is the number of fines. However if i want to convey that it is the amount that has increased, amount fits in fine with the sentence.
Isnt this sentence confusing unless author indicates somewhere down the line in the sentence that it is the number and not amount that we are referring to?
Because both usages are correct--> there should be more clarity
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RonPurewal
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Post subject: Re: Mine Safety Question- Number vs Amount Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:49 am |
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induskakade wrote: Thanks for the explanation!
While C is correct when we intend to convey the meaning that it is the number of fines. However if i want to convey that it is the amount that has increased, amount fits in fine with the sentence.
Isnt this sentence confusing unless author indicates somewhere down the line in the sentence that it is the number and not amount that we are referring to?
Because both usages are correct--> there should be more clarity hi -- take a look at the post directly above yours. in that post, i explained the problem with choice (d). yes, the usage is fine, but you still have an issue with singular and plural in that choice.
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lastavalon
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Post subject: Re: Mine Safety Question- Number vs Amount Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:31 pm |
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gorav.s wrote: Given the choices C seems the best. For the same reason that we should stick to the original meaning of sentence - which seems to suggest that total number of fines shall be increased and not the value of the fine.
Also "the number " as rightly pointed out here - as also present in the Manhattan SC guide - is singular here.
So there is nothing wrong in saying - Admnistration has increased the number . What is the problem here, - it seems fine to me. Well, we don't know here whether there are one or several levels of fines. You could have one category of fines for mining safety violations. In this case, couldn't we choose "the amount of fines"? Or would we really have to say "the amount of the fines"? (I'm not a native English speaker, this is a bit tricky for me - sorry to raise that question again). The first thing I thought when I read this sentence is: the administration is not supposed to decide the number of fines. In my country, France, it is even a regular controversial topic. And as GMAT is politically correct, this sentence was surprising to me. Therefore, when I saw "amount", it sounded like the right word straight away; then, - I thought about the plural thing - but privileged the meaning because grammar is still ok if there is one level of fines : the amount of fines... Am I wrong?
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tim
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Post subject: Re: Mine Safety Question- Number vs Amount Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:33 am |
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Posts: 2242 Location: Southwest Airlines, seat 21C
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first, don't bring outside knowledge into a verbal question. this is a perfect example of where that can get you into trouble!
let's say you are correct that there is only one category of fine. then the sentence should say "fine" rather than "fines", and Ron's analysis of the singular/plural issue is still the determining factor in this question..
_________________ Tim Sanders Manhattan GMAT Instructor
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