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 Post subject: Re: In hoping to restrain economic growth, interest rates were r
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:23 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 7146
hmgmat wrote:
Thanks Ron.

If I understand your rule #1 and #3 *together*, it means that ", verb-ing..." as an adjective modifier can only exist in the middle of the sentence or at the beginning of a sentence but not the end. Correct?

Thanks in advance.


no. if there's no comma, then it can be at the end: i saw a polar bear chomping on a woman's leg.
here, chomping... modifies "polar bear".
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/04 ... index.html


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 Post subject: Re: In hoping to restrain economic growth, interest rates were r
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:22 pm 
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How about with comma?

Is it true that ", verb-ing..., " as an adjective modifier can only exist in the middle of the sentence or at the beginning of a sentence but not the end?

Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: In hoping to restrain economic growth, interest rates were r
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:47 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 7146
hmgmat wrote:
How about with comma?

Is it true that ", verb-ing..., " as an adjective modifier can only exist in the middle of the sentence or at the beginning of a sentence but not the end?

Thanks in advance.




this seems correct, yes.

if you see any conflicting examples, though, be sure to post here and tell us.


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 Post subject: Re: In hoping to restrain economic growth, interest rates were r
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:45 pm 
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Hi Ron,

I can't recall if there is an counter example.

Umm, according to your post here: post1876.html, the present participle phrase in "[subject], [present participle phrase], [verb]..." modifies the verb (action) rather than the subject.

So can I conclude that if I see "[subject], [present participle phrase], [verb]...", the present participle phrase can function as either an adverbial modifier or an adjectival modifier?

Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: In hoping to restrain economic growth, interest rates were r
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:15 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 7146
hmgmat wrote:
So can I conclude that if I see "[subject], [present participle phrase], [verb]...", the present participle phrase can function as either an adverbial modifier or an adjectival modifier?

Thanks in advance.


you'll be safe if you consider "adverbial modifier" to be the default mode here.

the distinction isn't as wide as you may think, anyway.
remember that adverbial modifiers, even though they directly modify some action, do imply that the subject of said action is also their subject.
i.e., if you have "X did Y, doing Z", then X must be the one who's doing Z.


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 Post subject: Re: In hoping to restrain economic growth, interest rates were r
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:15 am 
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Posts: 60
Thanks for your explanation and patient ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: In hoping to restrain economic growth, interest rates were r
 Post Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 5:56 pm 
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Posts: 60
--deleted--


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 Post subject: Re: In hoping to restrain economic growth, interest rates were r
 Post Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 1:09 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 480
Location: Durham, NC
Not exactly. Ron didn't mean the placement in general in the sentence, but rather the placement given the context/other words in the sentence. If such an -ing form were to be an adjective modifier, it would be next to the noun it describes.


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 Post subject: Re: few more clarifications
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:26 pm 
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Prospective Students


Posts: 132
RonPurewal wrote:
rschunti wrote:
Why other choices are wrong? Also in the OA what "it" is referring to "making it....". If it is referring to interest rates, then is interest rates not a plural and it a singular?


the 'it' is an idiomatic construction. it's the same 'it' that you'll see in the following:
it is impossible for adult learners to speak most languages without an accent.
i'm not sure of the grammatical term for this construction, if there is any, but you should know that such constructions exist.


dear Ron! i may disagree with you over the issue of it.

1# I Know a idiom about it, which can refer to a that sub-clause or a infinitive.
In your example--it is impossible for adult learners to speak most languages without an accent, it refer to to speak languages; in other words, i change the sentence into another one of the same mining--to speak most languages without an accent is impossible for adult learners.
which is impossible? to speak most languages without XX .

2# in this GMATprep question--making it more expensive for businesses and consumers to borrow., the usage of it dose not belong to the idiom.
which is expensive? to borrow is expensive---dose not make sense!!!
it must be that certain NOUN is expensive, so it must refer to certain NOUN.
something (NOUN) is expensive to borrow---make sense!!

3# we can not borrow interest rates, so it can't refer to interest rates. what the hell dose it refer????????????

stephen


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 Post subject: Re: few more clarifications
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:19 pm 
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Students


Posts: 3
the point here is 'it' need not always have an antecedent; 'it' many times is used as a 'place holder' to make the sentence meaningful and sound correct - as is the case here.


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 Post subject: Re: few more clarifications
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:50 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 7146
tankobe wrote:
2# in this GMATprep question--making it more expensive for businesses and consumers to borrow., the usage of it dose not belong to the idiom.
which is expensive? to borrow is expensive---dose not make sense!!!


but this does make sense; it's the intended meaning of the sentence.

...made it more expensive for X to borrow...
has the same structure as
it was more expensive for X to borrow...

--

also, it's easier just to memorize this as a standalone idiom than to worry about what "it" stands for in this instance. since "it" doesn't stand for a noun (in stark contrast to every other rule concerning pronouns), it's better just to memorize this as the one instance in which "it" doesn't have to stand for a pronoun.


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 Post subject: Re: In hoping to restrain economic growth, interest rates were r
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:13 pm 
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Posts: 132
RonPurewal wrote:
hmgmat wrote:
It seems to me that OG is trying to say that the participle phrase is an adjectival phrase modifying a noun (phrase), which is "shields" or "items". Or actually, there exists a kind of adverbial phrase modifying a noun (phrase)? Or do I completely misinterpret the explanations?


you misinterpreted the explanations.

first, let me assure you again: if you see an -ing modifier after a full clause and a comma, it WILL be an adverbial modifier.
always.
end of story.
i promise you.
--

Ron, i really agree with you, but when -ing modifier follow the subject, it may be not wise to differentiate it between ADJ modifier and ADV modifier. here is a example:

The Chicago and Calumet Rivers originally flowed into the St. Lawrence by way of Lake Michigan, but having been redirected by constructing canals so that the water now empties into the Mississippi by way of the Illinois River.

(A) Rivers originally flowed into the St. Lawrence by way of Lake Michigan, but having been redirected by constructing
(B) Rivers had originally flowed into the St. Lawrence by way of Lake Michigan, but they have been redirected by constructing
(C) Rivers, which originally flowed into the St. Lawrence by way of Lake Michigan but have been redirected by the construction of
(D) Rivers, originally flowing into the St. Lawrence by way of Lake Michigan, but having been redirected by the construction of
(E) Rivers, originally flowing into the St. Lawrence by way of Lake Michigan, have been redirected through the construction of
* source:GMATPrep

the key is E. I think it is better to take originally flowing into the St. Lawrence as adj modifier rather than adv modifier.

_________________
stephen


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