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RonPurewal
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Post subject: Re: if x does not equal -y Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:15 am |
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| ManhattanGMAT Staff |
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Posts: 7146
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vinnu.m558 wrote: Hi,
Even after going through all comments on this particular question I still feel that B is the right choice.
The actual ques after rephrasing is : IS x-y>x+y ?? no, you can't do this -- you can't multiply by a denominator whose sign you are unsure of. i.e., to get to this “rephrase” you have to multiply by (x + y); that is a problem, because we don't know whether (x + y) is positive or negative. if (x + y) is positive then you get to rephrase shown here, but, if it is negative, then it becomes "<". PLEASE READ THE THREAD BEFORE YOU POST -- all of this has already been explained earlier on this same page: post10355.html#p10355
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wxandr
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Post subject: Re: if x does not equal -y Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:35 am |
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Posts: 3
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If x is not equal to -y, is (x-y)/(x+y) > 1?
(1) x > 0 (2) y < 0
I performed a few steps to simplify the left side of the inequality and obtain a certain sign for the denominator.
As one number, x+y multiplied or divided by itself is positive. So, I performed the following operation to only the left side,
[(x-y)/(x+y)]*[(x+y)/(x+y)] =
(x^2-y^2)/(x^2+2xy+y^2)
The denominator is positive, because it has can be written as n^2. Multiply both sides of the inequality by it
(x-y)/(x+y) > 1.............? (x^2-y^2)/(x^2+2xy+y^2) > 1 x^2-y^2 > x^2+2xy+y^2
and combine like variables.
0 > 2y^2+2xy.
With a bit more simplification, rephrase the original expression as
0 > y^2 + xy
Is y(y+x) < 0 ?
Viewed as a positive-negative product. The answer is yes in two situations. Note that each situation has four conditions.
y > 0, y+x < 0, x < 0 AND x < -y
y < 0, y+x > 0, x > 0 AND x > -y
(1) x > 0. Statement (1) does not allow one to reach the further conclusions that y < 0 and x > -y. (2) y < 0. Statement (2) provides no information on the value of x or the signs of x and y.
We do not have further information that x > -y, as is necessary to conclude that (x-y)/(x+y) > 1.
Last edited by wxandr on Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:43 am, edited 8 times in total.
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tim
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Post subject: Re: if x does not equal -y Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:57 pm |
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| ManhattanGMAT Staff |
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Posts: 2242 Location: Southwest Airlines, seat 21C
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wxandr wrote: Is 0 > y(y+x) ?
Now the inequality can be viewed as a positive-negative product. If y > 0, y+x < 0, x < 0 and x < -y If y < 0, y+x > 0, x > 0 and x > -y
(1) x > 0. This implies that y < 0, but it does not conclude that x > -y (x's positive pull is greater than y's negative pull). (2) y < 0. This information is equivalent to (1).
We cannot conclude that x > -y, as is necessary to resolve whether (x-y)/(x+y) > 1. your steps to manipulate this inequality are okay (i.e. the first line quoted above). the problem is everything after that. regardless of whether y is positive or negative (BTW notice that you haven't accounted for y being 0), we know nothing about x other than that it is not -y. you seem to be taking the question to be a true statement and comparing it against the statements, or reading too much into the relationship between x and y. either way, this analysis is incorrect..
_________________ Tim Sanders Manhattan GMAT Instructor
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rachelhong2012
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Post subject: Re: if x does not equal -y Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:16 pm |
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I did this problem with flow chart approach learned from advanced quant strategy book.
Basically, if I can rephrase the question starting with a condition: that x+y is positive, then I can cross-multiply directly.
This condition thus leads to two possiblities, one in which: x-y > x + y so it becomes o>2y, thus y is negative
And one in which x-y < x+y (pretending that the scenario is opposite and x+y is negative, then I had just flipped the sign by cross-multiplying, hence I'm compensating it by flipping the sign later. then in this case, 0<2y, so y is positive
Therefore, we arrived at two different conclusions, based on whether x+y is positve or negative. And we need a statement that tells us that x+y is positve or negative to target one specific result. Yet, as you can see, given that x is positve and y is negative from combining both statements, there are still different possibilities. x+y can be either positive or negative. THUS E
Similar problems can be found in OG 11th: question 143 and 145, both can be solved easily without picking numbers if you know the flow chart approach.
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jnelson0612
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Post subject: Re: if x does not equal -y Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:11 pm |
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Posts: 1857
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rachel, you are doing great work here! Keep it up!
_________________ Jamie Nelson ManhattanGMAT Instructor
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