Author 
Message 
abehrman

Post subject: gmat Prep Math Question Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:55 pm 


Course Students 

Posts: 6

if $1,000 is deposited in a certain bank account and remains in the account along with any accrued interest, the dollar amount of interest, I, earned by deposit in the first n years is given by:
I = 1,000 ((1+r/100)^n 1)
where r percent is the annual interest rate paid by the bank. Is the annual interest rate paid by the bank > 8%?
1) the deposit earns a total of $210 in interest in the first 2 years.
2) (1+r/100)^2 > 1.15
I know 1 is sufficient, why is 2 insufficient? You can solve for r.





agha79

Post subject: Re: gmat Prep Math Question Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:24 pm 


Course Students 

Posts: 98

becasue there is no way of finding what "r" is





jitendra.havaldar

Post subject: Re: gmat Prep Math Question Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:18 am 


Students 

Posts: 6

For the 2nd option mentioned above, when such an option is given on the test, do we have to put in some 23 values to confirm? or we simply take it as an insufficient option without giving it a second thought? why i say this is because of the following 2 scenarios here:
For (1+r/100)^2 > 1.15 :
1. assume (1+r/100)^2 = 1.16 solving for 'r', we get r = 7(less than 8)
2. assume (1+r/100)^2 = 1.44 solving for 'r', we get r = 12(greater than 8)
so clearly insufficient since we get 2 different answers for the scenarios mentioned.





kramacha1979

Post subject: Re: gmat Prep Math Question Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:22 pm 


Students 

Posts: 68

Ron,
I have 2 questions here
a) The first statement doesn't say that the principal is the same 1000. The initial statement was just an example to show the relation. In that case how can Stmt#1 be Suff
b) How do we go about solving for r in stmt#2easily? . I mean for 1.16 we get r<7 and 1.44 r>8. It's time consuming to find the square root of 1.16 and to prove that Stmt#2 is insuff just by mere plugging values .. I thought GMAT math calculations aren't tough but need tricks/short cuts





tejkumar.m

Post subject: Re: gmat Prep Math Question Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:32 am 


Students 

Posts: 14

The first point you made is true.. Not sure abt that.
Second one, shortest way is put 8 in (1+r/100)^2 which will come to 1.16 appr.. now the 2 nd option says it is greater than 1.15.. by this it is possible that r is 8, and hence it is "=8" and it is also possible to be r>8 say 9 or any other number >8 will satisfy == (1.18) which is also > 1.15.. Hope this helps.





sandeepgupta176

Post subject: Re: gmat Prep Math Question Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:58 am 


Students 

Posts: 6

abehrman wrote: if $1,000 is deposited in a certain bank account and remains in the account along with any accrued interest, the dollar amount of interest, I, earned by deposit in the first n years is given by:
I = 1,000 ((1+r/100)^n 1)
where r percent is the annual interest rate paid by the bank. Is the annual interest rate paid by the bank > 8%?
1) the deposit earns a total of $210 in interest in the first 2 years.
2) (1+r/100)^2 > 1.15
I know 1 is sufficient, why is 2 insufficient? You can solve for r. Lets work with statement second !!! Given the exponent power is 2 that means n=3 (3 years). Now 1.15 here indicates that in 3 years the investment has increased by more than 15% That would approximately give around 5% of annual return (although thats not true in case of compounding interest, but would serve the purpose). Obviously since the return has been shown as greater than 15% for 3 years that means we can have both less than 8% per year (like 5% here) or even 10% if its 1.21 and not 1.15 on the right hand side. Statement 2 is therefore insufficient !!! We dnt need to solve for square roots of 1.15 or something, GMAT never requires that. Hope this helps !!!





akhp77

Post subject: Re: gmat Prep Math Question Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:27 am 


Students 

Posts: 114

Statement 1:
210 = 1,000 ((1+r/100)^2 1) r = 10%
Sufficient
Statement 2: (1+r/100)^2 > 1.15 = 115/100 = (1+7.23/100)^2
r > 7.23 r may take any value between 7.23 and 8 or >= 8 So, we can't say whether it would be lesser than, greater than, or equal to 8
Insufficient
Ans: A





StaceyKoprince

Post subject: Re: gmat Prep Math Question Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:22 pm 


ManhattanGMAT Staff 

Posts: 7594 Location: San Francisco

Multiple questions on this one!
abehrman, as some others have mentioned, we cannot actually solve for r with statement 2 alone. First, we can't actually solve for a particular value because statement 2 is an inequality, which means we are only going to be able to solve for a range of values. That still COULD be sufficient, because the question also asks about a range (>8%), so we have to explore a bit further.
jitendra provides one nice way to test  try a couple of different numbers to see whether we can get contradictory results (one result that is greater than 8% and one result that is less than or equal to 8%).
You can also attempt to simplify the given inequality, depending upon whether you feel more comfortable working with real numbers or working with algebra. (Note: most people feel more comfortable  or should feel more comfortable  working with real numbers. Algebra can get a lot messier.)
take the SQRT of both sides: 1+ (r/100) > approx. 1.07 r/100 > 0.07 r > approx 7
(Note: this looks easier than jitendra's tryrealnumbers approach, but do you know how to quickly and fairly accurately approximate the square root of a number such as 1.15?)
So, if r is greater than about 7, then r could be less than or equal to 8 and it could also be greater than 8.
kramacha, the information given in the question stem applies to the entire problem. When statement 1 says "THE deposit" it is referring to the only deposit that has been mentioned in the problem  the $1,000 deposit in the question stem.
_________________ Stacey Koprince Instructor Director of Online Community ManhattanGMAT





joehurundas

Post subject: Re: gmat Prep Math Question Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:04 am 


Forum Guests 

Posts: 23

To prove sufficiency of (2), we can test r=8, and r > 8. first, r=8 > (1.08)^2 = 1.166 > 1.15...we respond "No, r <> 8" for r>8 we expect (1+ r/100)^2 > 1.15...we respond "YES, r > 8" Insufficient Hope my suggestion helps.





RonPurewal

Post subject: Re: gmat Prep Math Question Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:27 am 


ManhattanGMAT Staff 

Posts: 12473

joehurundas wrote: To prove sufficiency of (2), we can test r=8, and r > 8. first, r=8 > (1.08)^2 = 1.166 > 1.15...we respond "No, r <> 8" for r>8 we expect (1+ r/100)^2 > 1.15...we respond "YES, r > 8" Insufficient Hope my suggestion helps. i'm not really following this solution. first, i don't know what "<>" means (looks like a typographical error, but i can't be sure). please explain; thanks. second, i think that you might have the right idea, but a couple of steps are missing. here's the whole explanation: when you plug in r = 8, you get 1.1664. this means that 1.15 would correspond to an rvalue of LESS than 8. since huge values (much greater than 1.15) can clearly correspond to rvalues that are greater than 8  in fact, they can correspond to rvalues as large as desired  it follows that we can get rvalues that are either less than or greater than 8. so, insufficient.
_________________ Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano Potete fare domande a Ron in italiano On peut poser des questions ÃƒÂ Ron en franÃƒÂ§ais Voit esittÃƒÂ¤ÃƒÂ¤ kysymyksiÃƒÂ¤ Ron:lle myÃƒÂ¶s suomeksi
Un bon vÃƒÂªtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur. Yves SaintLaurent





wxandr

Post subject: Re: gmat Prep Math Question Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:49 am 


Forum Guests 

Posts: 3

If $1000 is deposited in a certain bank account and remains in the account along with any accumulated interest, the dollar amount of interest, I, is given by:
I = 1000[(1 + r/100)^t  1]
where r is the annual interest rate, and t is measured in years.
Is the annual interest rate paid by the bank greater than 8 percent?
(1) The deposit earns a total of $210 in interest in the first two years. (2) (1 + r/100)^2 > 1.15
(1) 210 = 1000[(1 + r/100)^2  1] Ã‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â 0.21 = (1 + r/100)^2  1 Ã‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â 1.21 = (1 + r/100)^2 Ã‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (1.21)^1/2 = (1 + r/100) Ã‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â 1.1 =Ã‚Â Ã‚Â 1 + r/100 Ã‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â 0.1 = r/100 Ã‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â 10 = r
(2) 1 + r/50 + (r^2)/10000 > 1.15 Ã‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â (r^2)/10000 + r/50 > 0.15 Ã‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â Ã‚Â r^2 + 200r  1500 > 0
r > Ã‚Â [200 +/ sqrt(46,000)]/2 r > Ã‚Â [200 +/ 214.47]/2 r > 7.238
A note: the computations for (2) are performed by solving the quadratic formula for positive roots of r. They confirmed test logic that the lower boundary for r might not be great enough to determine whether the interest rate paid by the bank is greater than 8 percent.
In contrast to the range that satisfies the inequality in (2), the equation in (1) provides an exact value for r.





RonPurewal

Post subject: Re: gmat Prep Math Question Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:25 am 


ManhattanGMAT Staff 

Posts: 12473

wxandr wrote: In contrast to the range that satisfies the inequality in (2), the equation in (1) provides an exact value for r. this is true. notice one consequence of this fact in particular  namely, once you notice that the process is going to yield a unique solution, it's a complete waste of your time to continue solving it! in other words, after writing about half of the steps that you wrote above for statement 1, you should have stopped and written "this is going to give only one solution ... sufficient". don't waste your time! there's already plenty of time pressure on this test; no reason to add any more.
_________________ Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano Potete fare domande a Ron in italiano On peut poser des questions ÃƒÂ Ron en franÃƒÂ§ais Voit esittÃƒÂ¤ÃƒÂ¤ kysymyksiÃƒÂ¤ Ron:lle myÃƒÂ¶s suomeksi
Un bon vÃƒÂªtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur. Yves SaintLaurent





prashant.ranjan

Post subject: Re: gmat Prep Math Question Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:32 am 


Students 

Posts: 16

For statement (2) following method can be useful:
(1 + r/100)^2 > 1.15 Now we know that 1.1^2 = 1.21. So sqrt(1.15) falls between 1 and 1.1 (No need to compute the actual sqrt of 1.15)
1< (1 + r/100) < 1.1 0 < r/100 < 0.1 0< r < 10 So it seems r is less than 10 but it may be less than 8 or greater than 8. So (2) is insufficient.
Thanks Prashant





RonPurewal

Post subject: Re: gmat Prep Math Question Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:54 am 


ManhattanGMAT Staff 

Posts: 12473

prashant.ranjan wrote: For statement (2) following method can be useful:
(1 + r/100)^2 > 1.15 Now we know that 1.1^2 = 1.21. So sqrt(1.15) falls between 1 and 1.1 (No need to compute the actual sqrt of 1.15) au contraire, you do need to estimate this square root  at least, you have to figure out whether it is greater or less than 1.08. if the square root is greater than 1.08, then the statement is sufficient. if it's less, the statement is insufficient. Quote: 1< (1 + r/100) < 1.1 0 < r/100 < 0.1 0< r < 10 So it seems r is less than 10 but it may be less than 8 or greater than 8. So (2) is insufficient.
Thanks Prashant no, that doesn't work, although you get lucky and accidentally get the right answer with these particular numbers. i don't know where you are getting either side of this inequality, actually; the correct inequality is (1 + r/100) > Ã¢Ë†Å¡1.15, which has basically no relation to what you've written here.
_________________ Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano Potete fare domande a Ron in italiano On peut poser des questions ÃƒÂ Ron en franÃƒÂ§ais Voit esittÃƒÂ¤ÃƒÂ¤ kysymyksiÃƒÂ¤ Ron:lle myÃƒÂ¶s suomeksi
Un bon vÃƒÂªtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur. Yves SaintLaurent





ghong14

Post subject: Re: gmat Prep Math Question Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:37 pm 


Course Students 

Posts: 107

It seems that the key to statement to is recognizing that the square root of 1.15 is 1.07. Any suggestions on what is the easiest way to know that other than calculating. Because I can estimate that the square root of 1.15 is between 1 and 2 but down to .07. Not sure how to do that.





