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 Post subject: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:12 pm 
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For protection from the summer sun, the Mojave lived in open-sided, flat-topped dwellings known as shades, each a roof of poles and arrowweed supported by posts set in a rectangle.

(A) each a roof of poles and arrowweed
(B) each a roof of poles and arrowweed that are being
(C) with each being a roof of poles and arrowweed
(D) with roofs of poles and arrowweed to be
(E) with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are



Official Answer is A. I chose B. A seems to be less clear to me because B uses "that are" to refer to "poles and arroweed", making the meaning much clearer. Moreover, it is unclear what the participle "supported" is modifying. Is it "poles" , "arroweed", or "roof"?


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 Post subject: Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:58 pm 
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Posts: 88
hi style01

I think that B is a comma slice because if you add "that are .." you have two independent clauses separated by a comma. This each ... construction is common in many problems, so always check that you don't have a verb after each ...

check problem 69 Verbal review second edition and this explanation by Ron
taste-buds-are-onion-shaped-structures-t2595.html


Regarding the use of supported. I agree that it is a little unclear. I think it refers to roof but I'm not completely sure. This is not the only GMAT prep sentence in which a past participle is a little ambiguous
check this one out

What scientists know about dinosaur brains comes from studies of the cranium, the bony house of the brain located in the back of the skull

I think GMAT might use past participles without comma to refer to the noun before the prepositional phrase, so in the above case, but this is just something from my observations. Wait for other opinions.

he bony house of the brain located


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 Post subject: Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:29 pm 
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hi, thanks for your reply.

With all due respect, I thought "that" is a relative pronoun, so it can be used with helping verbs in this sentence?


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 Post subject: Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:26 am 
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Can anybody tell me how to eliminate D and E. I have seen some correct responses in which "with " is used correctly. Is there any grammatical rule where sentences using 'with' can be correct. Please tell me; my test is with in 2 days. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:14 pm 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


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Location: St. Louis, MO
style01 wrote:
hi, thanks for your reply.

With all due respect, I thought "that" is a relative pronoun, so it can be used with helping verbs in this sentence?

You are right, that is a relative pronoun, so it's OK to have a verb in that relative clause (no punctuation problem).

However, the verb in the relative clause must agree with the modified noun. Thus, two things tell us that poles and arrowweed are modified by the relative clause in (B):

(1) plural are being supported agrees with plural poles and arrowweed, not singular roof.
(2) that and other relative pronouns usually refer to the immediately preceding noun.

And that's the problem--The intended meaning is that the roof is supported, not just the components of the roof. But that's awfully close to call, so we can fall back on the classic OG explanation: (B) is "wordy and awkward":
(1) (B) has 3 extra words.
(2) awkward usage of "being" in (B)--even if you wanted to use a relative clause with that, why not just say "that are supported"?

jeetdan wrote:
Can anybody tell me how to eliminate D and E. I have seen some correct responses in which "with " is used correctly. Is there any grammatical rule where sentences using 'with' can be correct. Please tell me; my test is with in 2 days. Thanks.

For me, it is the fact that with roofs (plural!) changes the meaning--do these dwellings consist of one roof or multiple roofs?

Also, to be in (D) makes it sound as if the support of the roof(s) is hypothetical or just planned for the future.

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 Post subject: Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:51 pm 
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Students


Posts: 2
to be in D dosen't fit in the sentence it changes the tense of the sentence to future.

In C the sentence should read "each with..." further, being is not at all necessary in the sentence try this "each with a roof of..." so c is out

In B 'that are being' changes the tense of the sentence to present cont. see the sentence the Mojave lived in X each a Y(which is) supported by....

There is fight between E and A
E is out atleast I killed it because
1.With roofs(plural)
2.the sentence read to me as if Mojave were living with roofs i.e. they constructed shades and lived with roofs as if living with something..

I agree that selecting between A and E is really difficult! But try to gauge the meaning of the sentence then the it may clear some haze...

I hope I answered your doubt!


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 Post subject: Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:05 am 
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I am still not clear on why E is incorrect. The sentence refers to 'shades' and naturally, roofs has to follow, else it might mean that several 'shades' had only a single roof.

Will be grateful if MGMAT instructors care to clear my confusion. Thanks in advance...!!!


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 Post subject: Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...
 Post Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:14 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 12474
sombanerjee1 wrote:
I am still not clear on why E is incorrect. The sentence refers to 'shades' and naturally, roofs has to follow, else it might mean that several 'shades' had only a single roof.

Will be grateful if MGMAT instructors care to clear my confusion. Thanks in advance...!!!


the main problem with (e) is the fact that "are" is in the present tense; that's illogical, considering that the mojave "lived" (past tense) in those homes.
taken literally, then, this sentence is describing the current conditions of the houses, even though the mojave don't live in them anymore.
that doesn't fly.

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 Post subject: Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:03 pm 
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Posts: 38
Location: Texas
Quote:
(E) with roofs of poles and arrowweed that are

I agree - if this option were :
(E) with roofs of poles and arrowweed that were
It would have been correct.


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 Post subject: Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:55 am 
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 Post subject: Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:40 pm 
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Posts: 9
RonPurewal wrote:
sombanerjee1 wrote:
I am still not clear on why E is incorrect. The sentence refers to 'shades' and naturally, roofs has to follow, else it might mean that several 'shades' had only a single roof.

Will be grateful if MGMAT instructors care to clear my confusion. Thanks in advance...!!!


the main problem with (e) is the fact that "are" is in the present tense; that's illogical, considering that the mojave "lived" (past tense) in those homes.
taken literally, then, this sentence is describing the current conditions of the houses, even though the mojave don't live in them anymore.
that doesn't fly.


Hi Ron,

Aren't the options C/D/E incorrect because of the prepositional phrase - "with roofs and poles..."

Since, prepositional phrases modify the subject of the preceding clause, it modifies Mojave people here...which is incorrect.

Am I wrong??


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 Post subject: Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:22 pm 
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Posts: 13
Hi, Ron I am very much interested to understand the issues with prepositional modifiers 'with each being/ with roofs', etc:

would the following: "The Mojave lived in dwellings, with roofs of poles and arrowweed" literary mean that the Mohave 'shared the same house/lived together' with roofs??


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 Post subject: Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:39 am 
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Posts: 13
Dear Experts could you please respond to the question above?

I can't sleep, I need to understand this issue...

Would greatly appreciate your time and effort!


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 Post subject: Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:14 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 12474
daurentur wrote:
would the following: "The Mojave lived in dwellings, with roofs of poles and arrowweed" literary mean that the Mohave 'shared the same house/lived together' with roofs??


no -- prepositional phrases require a certain amount of common sense.
e.g.
james lives in a house with four walls --> this is a correct sentence, whose meaning is that james lives in a house whose construction includes four walls. grammatically, it could mean that james has four walls as housemates, but you have to use common sense to reject that idea.
james lives in a house with lydia and matt --> this is another correct sentence, whose meaning is that james lives in a house and that his housemates are named lydia and matt. grammatically, it could mean that lydia and matt are part of the construction of the house, but, again, common sense rejects this idea.

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 Post subject: Re: For protection from the Sun, the Mojave...
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:19 am 
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ManhattanGMAT Staff


Posts: 12474
by the way --

daurentur wrote:
Dear Experts could you please respond to the question above?

I can't sleep, I need to understand this issue...

Would greatly appreciate your time and effort!


don't do this -- i.e., don't post a message that says "please answer my question".
this is called "bumping" the thread; it brings the thread up to the most recent position in the folder.

the problem, of course -- besides the fact that "reminder posts" are obnoxious, rude, and unprofessional -- is that we answer the posts strictly in order from oldest to newest. therefore, if you post a message, with no content, that says "please answer this post", then you are moving the thread to the LAST place in the queue.

please be patient -- we will get to all of the threads. if you make posts like this one, you're just making yourself wait longer.

thanks.

_________________
Pueden hacerle preguntas a Ron en castellano
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On peut poser des questions à Ron en français
Voit esittää kysymyksiä Ron:lle myös suomeksi

Un bon vêtement, c'est un passeport pour le bonheur.
Yves Saint-Laurent


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